Originally aired on November 20, 2022 @ 6:30 AM - 7:00 AM EDT
Naba Ahmed is a marketer and virtual speaker who draws on her journalism experience to develop content strategies for tech companies. As the first hire on Prezi’s Editorial team focused on supporting its business users, she works closely with thought leaders to create, record, and live stream Prezi videos that are featured to their 100M+ users. In addition, Naba ideates, leads, and moderates Prezi’s hybrid work webinar series, featuring speakers from companies including Atlassian, Slido, Ecamm, Calendar, and more.
Naba strives to help people share more interactive and captivating presentations by incorporating storytelling principles, no matter the audience. Her passion for storytelling stems from her roles in the newsroom and in content marketing, which allowed her to hone her craft in order to create captivating content. Naba has shared her keynote at a wide range of organizations, including Fortune 100 companies, tech firms, and nonprofit organizations.
In 2021, Naba was selected as a finalist for the “Rising Star” award for the Women in Content Marketing Awards, co-presented by Content Marketing Institute and Masthead Media.
Naba graduated with a B.S. in Journalism and a minor in Integrated Marketing Communications from California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo.
Yes We Can is a recurring series presented by Cloudflare Co-founder, President, and COO Michelle Zatlyn, featuring interviews with women entrepreneurs and tech leaders who clearly debunk the myth that there are no women in tech. To watch more episodes of Yes We Can — and submit suggestions for future guests — visit
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Hi, everyone. Welcome. I'm Naba and I just had a moment, kind of a technical last minute heart attack panic attack, but so great to have you joined. Welcome back everyone to this week's episode of Yes We Can. I'm Michelle Zatlyn. Super excited to be here to have Naba Ahmed joining me today. Hi, Naba, how are you? Hi, I'm doing well. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks, Michelle. I'm super excited. I interviewed one of your colleagues a few months ago. So it's great to have you back learning more about how making all of our virtual meetings pop and all your role, what content editor does. We have so much to dive into today. And so let's let's jump in. So currently, you're a content editor at a great company called Prezi. I think that a lot of people probably wonder, what does that mean? For example, like, what does that mean? So why don't you tell us in the audience, Naba, what does what does a content editor mean? What do you do? Right? Yeah, great question. And thank you again for having me, Michelle. Like I said, I'm so happy to be here. For those of you who did get to watch the episode with Lorraine, who is actually my manager, she may have shared a little bit about Prezi. But I'll just give you a little bit of background and then dive more into my role. But Prezi is a virtual collaboration software. And we actually been around since 2009. But in 2019, they launched a new product called Prezi video, which actually, Michelle, you and I are both using right now to have our little name tags. And that's what my role largely revolves around. So as a content editor, I get to dip my toes in a lot of different areas like social media, virtual conferences, email marketing. And I actually recently took over the social media for Prezi social platforms. So with that, I've been able to analyze our current strategy and then use that data to implement a strategy going forward to hopefully increase engagement and awareness. And then I mentioned, I also work with virtual conferences. So I get to collaborate with different like, hybrid event platforms and event organizers to help them, you know, put together summits on different topics, including marketing, event planning, and then also get to coordinate with different speakers to help them use the product as well. And that ties into me also working with different like influencers and thought leaders. And as part of that, I get to help them get up to speed with Prezi video, they can use it for their meetings for their presentations for interviews like this. And then I get to feature it to our audiences, which is really fun to do. Seriously, it's amazing. I, it's, you know, I'm using Prezi because Lorraine told me about it. I'm doing it today. So is yours, yours looks better than mine. So I still need to go to 202. But it is really great. It feels like it pops and I, and it's, it's, it does feel like all of a sudden more alive, this conversation, which is, you know, just feels more personal. So I'm excited to hear more about that. And your your role is so broad, you get to do so many different things, so many different aspects. That's, that's exciting. It feels like no day is probably ever the same. Yeah, which is something I really appreciate. I think I'm used to like a very like fast paced environment where I get to have different tasks. I also can get bored doing one task easily. So it helps that there's this is like such a very like multifaceted role. That's great. Well, we're gonna get into some of your tips. Because as you said, you help people stand out in these meetings and presentations. And we are all spending a lot more time virtually now. So I want to get into those tips. But just before we do, did you know you always wanted to be a content editor? Because again, it's such a it's a new role. Because of all of the different disciplines and kind of how the Internet's played such a big role in how we work and how we interact. Is this something that you knew you wanted to do? Or did you kind of fall into it? Yeah, I would say more along the lines of falling into it. I had studied journalism at my university. And when I was going to school, I really didn't anticipate I would even be like in marketing or doing like kind of a content editor role. I kind of envisioned myself taking more of like the traditional path, going into reporting, working for a newspaper, or, you know, maybe even doing like public relations. But as I was like, doing different internships and starting to apply to roles, I realized like, as I was looking at the descriptions, I was like, okay, that's like, I have experience in this, I have experience in this. And so I think the great thing about journalism was that it kind of gave me so many skills that were transferable. And so really didn't think I would end up here, especially at a tech company like that wasn't even something where like, I see journalism fitting into tech. So yeah, it kind of all like fell into place. But it really shows that you can kind of like mold your jobs based off of like all the different skills you've learned. I love that. I always I often say like, life is a collection of experiences. And like you said, you mold it, you collect, you're collecting these experiences, and you can kind of carve your own path, not just paths, which I think is, I wish someone had told me that more loud and clear earlier in my career, because it makes wanting to go collect more experiences exciting versus like, Oh, is it gonna, is it gonna limit my ability going forward? So I think that's a great reminder to all of us. Okay, so you, again, your job is to help, you know, with our presentations in this virtual meetings, like really stand out and have better engagement. And so, you know, we were preparing for our conversations today. And I think that some of that we talked through some of the problems. So I'd love to go through some of the problems you pointed out, and then some of the solutions. So I think problem one was around, you know, you log into a call, I've definitely I've been many calls this morning already, and you see a sea of squares on my screen, and it's hard to stand out. So, so maybe tell us a little bit more about that problem, and what's a good solution to if you if you find yourself facing that on a daily basis? Yeah, yeah, I feel like this was something I struggled with a lot personally, when you know, we first kind of shifted to remote work. And it was just like, video conference call after video conference call. And that really contributes to a lot of fatigue. Because, yeah, it's kind of like, I don't know, there's a mindset where as soon as you log into that call, and you just see everyone, you're like, kind of got to take a deep breath and be like, okay, just one more meeting, or just like got to get through this. And it can be really difficult to do, especially when you're just like staring at a screen all day. And one thing for me that, honestly, I'd heard from a few people, but didn't think would make a big difference was to remove my the view of myself. Like, it can be so tiring seeing yourself and like, I'm the type of person, you know, I'll be like, fixing my hair, like focusing on that. And it just like, it drains you more than you think it would. And so that's something I had to like, took me a while, to be honest, I'll say I still struggle with it. But it has made a huge difference, because I'll be more focused on the speakers, I'll be more focused on like, the presentation, whatever the meeting is about, and I'm just like focused on my notes, rather than how I look and staring at myself. I also think another part of that can just be screen sharing itself. Like when you see slides, and then everyone's just like a tiny line of like people, and then you're trying to like, make sure you're paying attention to what's on the screen. And then who's talking, it can also be difficult for your brain to like, focus on it all. And I mean, you know, I'm using Prezi video. And that's one thing that I really like, because you can have your like content on the screen with you. And what also helps I think with Prezi video is yeah, you can, you know, have as much content as you want. But because you kind of have limited real estate, you tend to like cut down your presentation or whatever meeting is to make it fit alongside you. And by being more concise, that also helps you to just kind of flow through the meeting, have an agenda and get through it a little bit quicker. So definitely still something I'm struggling with. But those are the tips that I've found has helped helped me. I love it. I love it. Well, the I find myself fixing my hair all the time, too. So I add your background is my background. So you see it. And so it's, that's a good that's a good tip of shutting your video off video off so you can see yourself. Okay, so that that's a good one. So what about the other problem that sometimes happens in these virtual meetings and presentations is sometimes the human connection, because all of a sudden, it's like, you know, when you're in a room, you know, if you talk a lot with your hands or your mannerisms, the video flattens the world and there's both pros and cons, by the way. But how can you let some any tips for the audience of how you can still let your personality or human part of you shine through in a virtual meeting? Yeah, I think it I mean, it makes such a big difference how this like little square looks to people. And so I think one of the things that is really easy and was something you know, I even didn't do at the beginning, but just like your background itself. So by having like, you know, knickknacks or something that like conveys your personality or what you enjoy is just like a little indicator and can also be like a little talking point to at the beginning, if you're getting to know someone. And it also just, you know, makes you feel more human. I know at the beginning, I kind of was just like finding whatever space I could to have, like, some sort of professional background, but now I've like started investing in it a little bit more. I'm not at my normal office. So this is kind of just like my little play here, but that's about it. But, you know, it does make a difference. And that's how you're presenting yourself. I also think having like proper lighting. So, you know, these are kind of like basic things that people will tell you to have. But once it all comes together, it really makes a difference of how people like are perceiving you and they're they're more engaged with you. Like if there are things in your background that, you know, maybe it's like a slight mess or something, people will be distracted by that rather than using it as a way to like engage with you. So I would say like your background, lighting, super important, but also your camera. So if you're even just using your like laptop camera, that's fine. But you want to make sure it's at eye level because if you're not looking at your camera, it's very easy within this small box to say, like, if I'm looking down here or like looking at notes, like people can tell when you're not maintaining eye contact. And it can be really hard to have this space because when you're looking at your camera, you can't look at your notes, you can't look at like the Zoom meeting. So it is definitely something that takes some getting used to, but it will make a big difference because then person you're talking to like will feel like you're actually having a conversation with them or you're presenting to them. I will say that I feel like you're definitely having a conversation with me now I feel like I'm going to like grab your hands and pull you over here so it feels definitely connection, you know, I, I was just thinking, I was thinking through about your, your point around, hey, what's the background look like, and how many times it becomes a conversation point oh I really like that guitar or your plant or what are you doing back there. And I, you're right that connection is kind of the new water cooler I guess chit chat. Right. Yeah. The other one and you know obviously you work at Prezi but I what I think is really cool but the software is how you can now put your name up on on the square like and, and again this is the first time I've actually used it on yes we can but it looks good it looks better and it's kind of like I should be doing this all the time it looks more professional pulled together you know who you are, who I am. And so that also feels like a way to kind of help stand out and especially if you're presenting be like oh that's who you are. It does. Yeah, elevates it a little bit. And we've also had like some of our sales team you know they'll use it and you'll see you know like over here I have the Cloudflare logo so they'll be able to kind of personalize it like to talk about themselves but also personalize it for you know whatever company they're speaking to so they can like give them that experience, and it, you know, also another talking point to be like okay this is, of course they're selling the product to them but it makes it easier to show them like here's the capability when you can like envision your company or envision yourself doing it for sure for you have a great products you can definitely show it in this very big asset it's a good actually all the founders are people listening so how do you show you how your product delivers value you've got. Yeah. Good. It's a big influence. Okay, so you're on the call, you, you have people engage you're standing out, we've kind of gone through some tips. Then the last piece, kind of comment and I again I see this too and even meetings where people start to get distracted they click on other links outside of the outside of this conversation. You're like you know you know they're doing something else. And so, and again this has happened to a lot of folks, and when you're the presenter you almost don't know what to do it can be paralyzing you kind of think oh my god am I doing a bad job that's kind of the first reaction but it's, it's more of an attention sort sort of keeping people's attention so do you have any tips around how to keep your audience engaged and any kind of smart insights that you can share with the audience. Yeah, I think a big one for me is adding an agenda, like again it's just something that seems really simple but I think if you as the presenter or the host of the meeting know exactly what you want to be sharing, and one thing I even like to do is just have it up on Prezi video, like these are just some random things that I've added but you know having your agenda so people know exactly what to expect. And you as the host or presenter know exactly who you like need to touch base with on each item helps people stay a little more engaged. I also think that if people are no longer needed on a call or only need to come in for a certain part of the call like letting people drop off the call when it's no longer relevant to them is super helpful because that way, you know, I get distracted if I see other people being distracted so if someone no longer needs to be on the call they've said what they need to say or they, you know, we've asked them the questions that they need to answer like it's okay to let them drop off like time is money right so you want to give people back that time and be respectful of it as well and you know if they're no longer needed and it may actually, you know, be a detriment to the meeting because they'll be doing other work, like it's worth yeah like understanding who's needed at one point. I also think for just meetings even or like presentations making it interactive. So adding like polls or asking questions. I mentioned Lauren a little bit earlier but one thing that she does that's really cool is at the beginning of like our team meetings, she'll do like a question of the week, and so that's something that like immediately gets people involved and then it's just like kind of light hearted to start out, and then you're just more engaged because you feel like you're connecting with your colleagues which can be so hard just doing it virtually so just like kind of starting off your meeting setting the tone right and then there are opportunities to ask more questions like that or, you know, integrate polls that will draw your attendees back in, you know, even if it's just like your team small team meeting with like four or five people or it is just like a larger all hands meeting like those are still tools that you can incorporate to like draw people back. Those are good. That's great. What gives us some examples of like types of polls or question of the week, you know, just, just some examples just to get people's creativity imagination flowing. Yeah, yeah, I will say for like our smaller team meetings, it can be anything like I think the last one was like sharks or snakes so you know just something to be like, yeah, very light hearted and just kind of gauge how people are feeling. I think another one was like if you could live in any like fictitious world, which one would it be. So you know we got like the Narnia, the Harry Potter or like Hogwarts so I think that those are great for like the smaller team meetings. We've also had in our all hands meetings. It could be even questions like that I think one was like okay Krispy Kreme versus Duncan. And so actually with Prezi video you know you can actually put in like gifts or something. And so we'll see people like add them on their screen just saying like which one they want. And so that those are always fun things to just like break the ice, especially when you know people are joining into a big meeting. For webinars I help moderate them for Prezi and so all I like to do polls that you know are relevant to the content at hand. And so I'll incorporate those into whatever webinar we're doing the one we just did was about like how to tell a story with your audience and like craft a message that will actually inspire action. So we first actually just wanted to gauge like who the audience is so our presenter I won't take credit for this but our presenter Robert Kennedy he did one, he's like okay what, what's your role, and I think he put like educator business professional and then like Darth Vader Chewbacca, and another one so yeah it's just like, keep it a little more fun if you know you have the time and that way people will just be more drawn to what you're talking about because I'm like okay there's a little bit of humor. There's room to just like have a little more like light heartedness in these meetings. It's good. Those are good. I like those that's it. I'm gonna, I have some meetings that have to come up to run those are some good ideas for sharing that and then the agenda on the screen just so for the audience is listening that's, you can use that, like, people are probably asking you how you did that you're using to do that right yes yeah the software that if you use the service that it's one of the capabilities. Yes. All right, good. Okay, great. Well, I will move past the Q3 strategy and and the next one is around. So we've gone through some of the like common problems what to do about it and you were giving us so many good ideas, any other mistakes that you see when you because again you work with lots of different types of presenters and different companies. Do you see any other common mistakes that you can help us all avoid and what to do to get ahead of those. Yeah, I think one other one, and again I'm no expert at this but I think can, it can be coming off as too scripted. I'm definitely the kind of person that wants to have my notes all lined out like if I could you know I would read off a script just because I like to know exactly what I'm going to say, but I realized when I see other people doing that and then even when I watch back my recordings I'm like okay that's like very robotic very stiff, and when you sound that way also it can kind of just like low level people because they'll start tuning you out they'll be like okay like they're just reading they're not engaged like if they have a question I might throw them off. And I mean I still use like presenter notes but I started to add like bullets instead of writing out a full script so I kind of know what points I want to make, but you know I'm still able to like break out of it and answer questions if needed or like have that engagement point with the audience see how they're doing, make sure yeah like because because what I'm saying is to benefit the attendees or you know my meeting participants so I want to make sure that everything I'm saying is actually conveying properly to them and they're actually taking it in and not just like another meeting kind of thing. I love that you know it's so it's. That's such a good one we have a company wide meeting at Cloudflare every week and, and I hope, and people raise their hand to present and it's one of the presenter notes that I give everyone I say hey don't read from a script and this is a comment on your presentation style but more it makes it hard for the audience to engage. We want to hear what you're having to say. And I think on the flip side is the presenter that's really, that is, I think it's nerve wracking because you want the notes you want to not forget what to say and yeah here's what I'm going to forget to say something and, of course, that helps but it's almost like it's okay if you forget to say something it's you've probably still got 80 or 90% of the content through that one exactly make it or break it. Yeah, yeah I know I definitely do forget things and then when I like go back I'm like okay, I forgot to say that but you know that's kind of the beauty we have like things like slack we have email we can still send out follow ups after a meeting or presentation be like hey, like also here's some additional resources or whatever like there are ways to get around it so really not the end of the world if you forget something. It's a good it's a good reminder it doesn't it doesn't that's that's like it's like giving ourselves permission to say okay I'm going to get most of it and then there's, yeah, other avenues so yeah that's a good one. Okay, great. These are, I feel like I'm ready for my meetings all day today now this has been amazing I love that. So you know you said that you have to work with all these different mediums and distribution channels and this is a whole new field so there's a lot of like there's a lot of evolving trends so how do you stay current like what do you read how do you stay engaged give any recommendations for us for people who want to learn more. Yeah, so I Prezi. I started working with Lauren on this but we created like the Prezi virtual presentation innovators. And so through that I've met, I met a lot of great like different speakers and people who are just like, you know, making like amazing changes in the virtual presentation space, and a couple of my favorite leaders who you know I also would recommend follow them on LinkedIn just stay up to date with their content. One of them is Diana Chan, who she shares great speaking and career tips. She's also LinkedIn top voice but she uses Prezi, but she also will just share like really quick videos on social media she's always doing like live streams on YouTube and those are always helpful to check out so recommend her. And it's great because I feel like since she's sharing just like career and speaking tips she's kind of touching on all these different industries so I'm able to like kind of pull trends from her. Another person I recommend following that I go to for great content is skill scout film CEO Elena Valentine, who I've gotten the pleasure of working with for a few years, and I actually got to moderate one of her sessions recently at a summit, and she did almost like slam poetry for her presentation and so I feel like she is like, like, there's the trend and she's like already surpassed it like she kind of knows what's next and like is always looking for like the next best thing but always like staying true to like what she thinks is a great story and like how she can present herself so recommend following her for great content. I'm a podcast I really like is called only the bold, and it's hosted by Gia Goodrich, and she speaks on tips like across a number of fields so like video presence leadership imposter syndrome. And these I think are more personally you know it really resonates with me and so I love to hear it but I think she also she gets such great guests on who again are across like all different industries so just hearing their insights and how it can even like differ between industries like especially with like imposter syndrome or like female leaders. That's also always just like great to hear. That's amazing. I love those I you know it's so interesting I, I didn't know what you're going to say to that question, and I, those are all three new like I don't know that I'm excited to check it out only the bold and then, and then these two women that you mentioned I don't know them either so I'm going to definitely follow them. And then what did you say that you you you're learning, remind us, just remind what you created a prezi the virtual presenter. Yeah, yeah. So it's called the prezi virtual presentation innovators and so those two that I mentioned are part of that group of that cohort, but they share a lot of great content using prezi video so they'll use it for their keynotes their presentations or meeting so you check out any of Diana's live streams you'll see her with her custom fuzzy video presentation which always looks amazing. One other thing I did want to mention is I'm currently reading this so not fully done but it's called look me in the eye, and it's by Julie Hansen who also get to work with. She's a LinkedIn top voice in sales, and she essentially shares how to upgrade your presence on video. She ties it more into like client success and like customer calls, but I think all the tips she says, just for day to day meetings presentations and a lot of the stuff while I was reading through it it's like okay yeah this is like self explanatory like she even did mention you know like the eye contact and just like the distance between cameras and things like that but when you're reading it you're like okay actually I do need to make some adjustments like you kind of like okay this makes sense but I need to go back to my studio or like my office and make some changes so recommend that book as well. I love and I will just, I will just say, I don't know if you did it on purpose or not, but I love that all four suggestions were run by women. I don't know. Oh yeah I don't think I did do that purpose but I love that. I feel like you know sometimes. Again, there's so many amazing women in technology but there's more men and so it's great that the four resources you happen to just happen to think on top of your head were for women I think that's really neat so that's great. Good well thank you I can't wait to check these all out so we have about five minutes left before we wrap up and I'm just curious you know again as somebody who has seen a lot you kind of see I feel like now but you are seeing the trend before all the trends that are hot like any other kind of trends that you should keep that we should be thinking of that you think are going to become big, because it just feels like you see the future before the rest of us. I'd like to think yeah I'm like learning a little more about it but one trend I think that this may not sound super new to people but is just the advancement of like live streaming and video content so I mean I think we've already seen this happening you know with platforms like Netflix and just like YouTube and like how big those are but I think especially now we're at it, we're in a time where you have to be very competitive with video so what I'm most excited about that is kind of the advancement of video more so to see like how people are like what what are people going to do to really make it stand out, and there's actually another person who is a prezi VPI or virtual presentation innovator named Fuji and he creates this these really cool like it almost looks like artificial reality or like AI, and so that's something that I feel like will just become more like mainstream and people are going to start doing that so I think that that's one trend that I'm really excited about and I also think that people need to like keep a watchful eye on because you can think you know okay we're we got the videos we're putting subtitles we're doing all that we need like on social or like on our platforms but it may not be enough so that's one I still don't fully know the answer what's to come but I'm going to keep be keeping an eye on it. Feels like there's something there it's like bringing more of the illustration and the fantasy world kind of back to where's what's your favorite fantasy world to your everyday presentation because it's like the software is there now that makes it easy enough to do that. Right. And I mean I'll say I've fallen victim to tick tock but what I really appreciate about that platform is how they like cater the content to you so I think that, yes, that is something that we're already trying to do but I think that this is something like with the advancement of video like brands are really going to learn how to personalize it more for people. And I think, yeah, hopefully with the growth of technology there are going to be better ways to do that so yeah I'm just excited to see what's to come. There is there's a lot it sounds like a great field to get into because there's just like there's so much of it's, it's important it works, and it's good it's continuing to grow and evolve so I think that that's super interesting. That's great. So, you know, not about one question that I always like to ask and you're still early in your career and you've done so many interesting things which which is great. Do you have any advice you have for people who maybe are listening to you and be like, Oh my god not those jobs sounds so cool like if you think back to when you were in college studying journalism any advice you would give to other current, you know, people who recently graduated or might be coming up to grad or going through graduation right now. Yeah, that's a great question. Um, I would say to just like not limit yourself to the opportunities I think part of when I you know I was studying journalism I was like okay this is the kind of role that I need to do that's what like makes sense this is the path that I should follow. And I think it took me a while like I was probably my senior year and I was like okay I should explore and like more avenues but just because you know maybe you're like studying engineering or you're studying like biology it doesn't necessarily mean you need to go into those paths and I mean I know journalism is slightly different where I do have a little more wiggle room and more opportunities. But, um, I like actually I have a friend who studied mechanic mechanical engineering and then did a master's in art school and now he's like a UX designer so I think that that's some of my biggest, biggest advice is just to like, figure out what you enjoy doing, and especially with the, like, industries nowadays there is room to find a role that fits you. And like maybe it will take some like trial and error like I had to go through a few jobs to figure out you know what worked best for me, but there is, there is a job out there that you will really love. I love that that's such good that's good reminder for all of us actually now but I think well said well said okay so my, the, you know, I get to meet so many great people through the show and one question I ask everyone is, you know, as a woman in technology, where is the industry lived up to your expectation and where has it fallen short we have about, you know, 90 seconds you have some time to kind of. I'll be really, I'll be really quick. Um, so I mean, you know, you even just mentioned like how all my recommendations had been female and that was very unintentional but I do think that that's something that the industry could do better on in general just having more female leaders, and I think it takes women, women have to like prove themselves a little bit more, which can be very difficult, but I do think on the other hand of that like as an industry we are getting better at giving women like the opportunities to go into more leadership positions and to like, not necessarily even have to like prove themselves as much but to just show what they have to offer and show that they deserve a seat at the table so yeah I feel like we're we are like moving in that direction which is exciting but I do think there's still a lot of work to do in that area. I think that's fair I feel, I think that that's, I'm optimistic for the future to, and we should hold ourselves accountable because there's still a lot of work to do I think that's very well said. Amazing. Well now but this was such a pleasure I'd loved hearing all your tips we're all going to have better meetings because of you so thank you. And if anybody is interested in checking out Prezi where can they go to check it out Neva. Yeah, well feel free to just like connect with me on LinkedIn if you're interested in learning more, and you can also just go to like Prezi.com and actually for everyone watching if you want to check out Prezi.com slash attendee upgrade. I don't have a slide for it but you can get a free month of Prezi video with an upgraded account so if you want to do that and you have any questions just feel free to reach out to me, but thank you so much Michelle it was such a pleasure speaking with you and yeah I feel like now we get to stay connected and you know now you'll, you'll also be a thought leader that I follow and get insights from can't wait I love it this is this is the great us connecting the Internet connecting us. All right, thanks everyone for tuning in this week's episode I guess we can we'll see you next week. Thanks so much Neva. Thanks.