Yes We Can

Hi everyone. Welcome back to this week's episode of Yes We Can. I'm just so excited to have Lorraine here today. Hi Lorraine. Nice to, nice to see you. Hi Michelle. Good to see you too. Great. Well, Lorraine Lee is my guest this week and we're going to talk about journalism and editorial content, how you can make your content pop and technology. So it's going to be terrific. Just one housekeeping item before we get dive in. If you have ideas that people you'd love to see on the show, please email me at yeswecanatCloudflare .tv. I love getting your emails and hearing all the suggestions. And if you have questions as a way to submit questions online, but otherwise we'll dive in. So Lorraine, thanks so much for being here. So you are, you are a journalist. You did, you are a journalism major, and that you found your way into technology. And today you're the editorial director at a company called Prezi. And so I thought that maybe you could start by telling us a little bit about a little bit about who Prezi is. And also what does an editorial director do? Cause I think a lot of people don't know. So let's start there. Yeah. Yeah. Great question. So Prezi is a virtual presentation and collaboration solution for the hybrid office. So I think probably many people who are watching right now might be familiar with Prezi, our presentation product, but we actually came out with a video product in November, 2019, that has really taken off to help enterprises have better and more engaging meetings. So at Prezi, I lead the editorial team and I report into the head of marketing and my team is focused on three C's. So we collaborate with thought leaders and business influencers to help them create great Prezi video content, which we then curate and feature to our millions of users and beyond. So our team is really all about compelling Prezi video content that we can use to build thought leadership, grow brand awareness, and then also drive product adoption. Amazing. Okay. So I need my meetings and presentations to be better. And I like, I feel like your screen versus my screen means that you are exactly in the right profession. So glad we're chatting today, but so first of all, are you using the Prezi video service to, to spruce off your side of the screen, Lorraine? So I'm using Prezi video and it's a virtual camera, so it can work in Zoom and any other video conferencing platform that allows you to switch your camera. So I made this super quickly and yeah, Michelle, definitely I'll share this with you afterwards so you can use and share it with your guests too, if they want to give it a try. This is great. We're taking Yes We Can to the next level. I love it. Thank you. Thank you for making it more current Lorraine. I'm going to take you up on that. I love it. Okay, good. And so maybe a little bit more. So Prezi, like how big of a company is it? Is it, you know, 10 people or hundreds of people and just a little bit more context too. Yeah. So Prezi is about 10 years old and it has, I think roughly like 270 to 300 people right now. And we're actually headquartered in Budapest. So it was founded by Hungarian founders. And now though we have offices in San Francisco. We are now virtual first. So there's, you know, coworkers in Berlin, South Carolina Mexico. So all over the world. It turns out everyone in the world wants better content. It turns out that's a universal need for people and businesses. I love it. Okay. So in your current role at Prezi, and then I want to talk about some tips you can share with all of us, but, you know, you talk about the three C's. Can you maybe think about one or two projects that you're really proud of where you collaborate with some thought leaderships or where your team did where it really made a difference that maybe you could just share to help give us some context. Sure. Sure. So actually there's one that is super recent. So we just came out with a hybrid ebook about how to reimagine your hybrid meetings. And so this was kind of a culmination, I guess, of, you know, I've been at Prezi for almost two years now. So we've developed a lot of relationships with business influencers and hybrid work experts. And so we were able to lean on them to get a lot of insights about how to just do meetings better and virtual meetings better. And so you know, we use their insights. We worked with design. It was a huge cross-functional effort. Someone named Michael and the content marketing team kind of sifted through everything and turned it into, you know, the final product, but super proud of that just for the cross functional efforts internally. And then also all the really, you know, big names and just the insights that we were able to get from an external perspective. Oh, amazing. So how do we get access to this ebook? What's the best way to find it? Yes. So I think it's a prezi .com slash hybrid ebook is the short length. So that would be the way to find it. You can also just go on my LinkedIn. I posted it there as well. Okay, great. Well I feel like this hybrid work model is on top of mind for all of us, especially as it feels like this pandemic continues, continues longer than any of us thought. And so I'm definitely going to be checking this out. It's great. Thank you. Good. So, you know, one of the things that you talked about is really like collaborating and creating content that pops that has impact. And if you go to your LinkedIn, which you, you spent six years at LinkedIn. So your LinkedIn is very well, I think we can all learn a lot from your LinkedIn to Lorraine side. You know, one of the words you use on your LinkedIn is, Hey, I love to create content that has impact. And, you know, I find that's true. I mean, people are so busy getting people's awareness. Um, how do you, how do you, how do you carve a path to get people to pay attention? And so I thought this is universal and something that whether you're early in your career, mid of your career, later, your career, that we all want to be better at this. And so what are some tips that you can share with the audience of how to create content with impact? Yeah, that's such a great question. So, um, I would say three tips come to mind. So the first is that your content should be relevant to your audience. So you need to know who your content is for, um, then it should be timely. So at LinkedIn and Prezi, you know, content that covers a topic that's trending in the business world or in someone's industry is going to get more engagement and interest in something that's more evergreen. And then the last tip I would say is to be genuine and personable. So when we create content, we need to remember that the people consuming it are humans. They don't want to be sold to, or read something that's super promotional about your company. So, you know, at the foundation of it all, we need to create content that's meant to help people and, um, help inspire them. So those would be my, my top three tips for creating content with impact. I love that. We are all humans, that the reader is a human. So think about that, which, which, which makes sense. Do you think, has there anyone that stands out who does this really well, either a person or a company or a consumer brand? Like, is there somebody that, is there a company or person that you think does this really well? Um, Yeah. So I think, um, you know, who initially, well, besides the LinkedIn, you know, editorial team and the Prezi editorial team, I would say, you know, there's, there's a lot of people on LinkedIn who I think are doing a really good job with content and that's, you know, where a lot of my focus is. So, um, there's a few people I like to call out who I think are doing content really well. So, um, Jessica Chen is someone, she writes a lot about communications and video communications, and she posts content regularly. And what I really like that she does is she speaks from a very genuine place. So she's not afraid to share, um, like challenges she's gone through or struggles she's had. And I think, you know, especially in this virtual environment where we're really seeking that human connection, um, being able to share content like that is really meaningful. I think, um, someone else named Joel Hansen does a really good job on LinkedIn. So he posts really regularly. So, um, having, you know, a set cadence is also going to be really important to kind of build up, um, kind of your, your content engagement. And so he does a good job, um, not only posting content regularly, but also engaging with his followers, his readers, his viewers, and just making sure that they feel heard and that, you know, he, it really is building a conversation. And I think, you know, conversation is also a really big piece of that too. If you can have kind of that two -way communication between, you know, whether you're a brand or an individual and your audience, um, I think that will definitely, um, you know, boost numbers and also just provide more value to people who are reading. I love that. I love that. Do you know, as someone who works with a lot of people or where you follow these people who are creating these conversations and building audiences online and you have yourself, I mean, I think that, and does it ever worry you? Cause I think some people feel really like they put themselves out there when they're doing that and that they're worried that no one will care or we'll say something mean, how do you manage some of those, um, uh, feelings or how do you think about that? Yeah. So I think there's always going to be people out there who are negative and who aren't very nice and who will kind of, you know, try to, try to put you down. Um, I think, you know, especially on LinkedIn, I, I know that a lot of people do get nervous about posting because it is tied to your professional brand. And so, um, you know, I think there are some tips I can give for people who are just starting off, um, to kind of keep it more simple and maybe feel a little bit less pressure. So, um, you know, maybe just share an article link that you found interesting that might be relevant to your industry. And the next step might be, you know, share an article and then tease out like a few lines for why you found that interesting. And then, you know, more advanced advanced, so to speak, would be, um, to just, you know, post an opinion about something and post a longer, um, piece of content. So I think, um, definitely natural people are feeling nervous, but again, there's like small steps you can take to kind of feel more comfortable and eventually get to that point where you don't care what other people are saying. Yeah, no, it's interesting, especially if it's valuable. And like it, it, I think that is genuine. I feel like that that's maybe your greatest defense. The other piece, and I don't know if you agree with this or not, is it just feels like, you know, five years ago, this kind of was a very new concept, but now it feels like it's here to stay. Like, you know, Joel Hanson, Jess, these people you mentioned, like, like, I don't know those people, but the fact that you're following them and they find like that really interesting, like, I feel like this kind of phenomenon is here to stay. And so there's also a little bit of like, well, you might as well start small and start to get better at it. Cause it gets easier over time. Cause it seems like it could be a skillset that will be here for a long time and serve you well, if you can learn how to do it a little bit better than you do today. Yeah. I think I've seen, well, especially on LinkedIn, like they are hiring so many community managers and content creator, you know, type managers right now. So that's definitely a focus, at least at LinkedIn. And I imagine that other tech companies too, trying to build community. It's good. There's a good, there's a, there's a big, there's a big opportunity here, just both in terms of jobs and then just yourself, your profile online. I love that. Okay, good. This is great. We haven't talked about this one. Yes, we can. I find this whole area very, very fascinating. And so I know that you, you went to journalism school. And so this intersection of technology and editorial is super interesting and there it's very convoluted, convoluted and lots of changes. And where do you have that before you had to work as a journalist at a newspaper to be able to get points out, but now you can just go to LinkedIn and share the article and add your opinion. And it's almost like you can do a lot of those sorts of things. And so, you know, you think about this intersection of technology and editorial, which companies are doing it really well, maybe, and maybe areas where you feel like, but there's still untapped potential here that you could share with the audience because maybe it'll either spark an idea for someone to go start that company or, or, or, or, or maybe evolve their team to help fill it. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that companies that are doing this best are those who have a dedicated editorial or content team with a platform or product that ideally has a large audience because the bigger your audience is, you know, the more you can do with targeting and personalization, which is always going to get more engagement. So of course, I would definitely say LinkedIn and Prezi are doing this well. Another company that comes to mind is Power to Fly. So they are a recruiting platform, connecting women to jobs in tech and sales, marketing, et cetera. And they have a purely thought leadership content focused side of their company to help educate and inspire their target audience. So I don't remember how I got on their mailing list, but it was the content that drew me in. And so, you know, they're clearly doing a good job. And then through that content, I realized, you know, Oh, this is what Power to Fly does. This is like a really great resource. If you know, I'm looking for a job. The one place where I would say that companies maybe have faltered a little bit when it comes to content is just not thinking it's important. So when I moved to the Bay area, I actually didn't see too many content roles at tech companies. And, you know, even at LinkedIn, when I joined, it was a very small team, maybe like 10 editors or so. And it took a while to get others at the company to really understand what we did there. Now the team is, I think like 80 plus people, like spread across the world, at least 80 plus, probably more now. Now that I'm at Prezi, I get a lot of recruiters reaching out to me and they call out my journalism background as well as my experience in tech. So I think the tides are changing positively. And I would just remind companies who want a content person that you really have to just make sure that you are giving them the resources they need, that there is buy-in internally, and that they're just getting that support because that's what they're going to need to be successful. I love this. I love this. This makes me want to go back to my marketing team and be like, let's, let's talk about our content strategy. Cause it's just, we do a lot, but it's hard not to listen to you speak and be like, Oh my God, there's so many more places that we could be doing even better. And so one of the things that's interesting. So, you know, if you were advising a company who are like, Oh, wow. Okay. I'm clearly missing the boat at my company or my team. We need to do more with editorial team or content. And, and they were interviewing the candidate and the candidate said, okay, what are the resource? Do you give me the resources to be successful? Like what advice would you be giving these companies on how to think about that of, of what sort of support does an editorial team need and what works well and not well, maybe give us a little bit of color there, just cause you are so at the forefront of this new team and role within companies and help, help us all get smarter. Yeah. So I guess the first, the, the first two things that come to mind I guess, the first one would be to do an analysis or assessment of the channels that you have available. And are those the right channels that you need to kind of get the content out there to push it out to the right audience? The second, the second side would be to make sure that the audience you do have, that you have a clear understanding of what the breakdown is. So are they all focused on like sales? Are they a mix of educators and HR people? Like, I don't know, but I think that's one of the benefits that tech gives you is that you have, you can segment and you do have all this data that's available to you so that you can build the right content again for the relevant content for your audience. I love that. And when you say channels, do you mean like email addresses or is it Twitter? Yeah. Channels that you would promote the content. So it's like, do you have a blog? What are your social channels? Yeah. What's, what's your email email capacity? Like things like that. Amazing. Amazing. All right, good. Well, we are all a little bit smarter, so thank you for, for, for all helping us be a little bit smarter. And so one, one of the things you mentioned is that you worked at LinkedIn and you were there for six years. You went from journalism school, you were at LinkedIn. And I mean, it's an amazing company. You've built so much there. As you kind of reflect back now that you've been at Prezi for two years and clearly enjoying your role and doing a great job. What are some lessons you learned at LinkedIn or some things that really has served you well since in your career? Yeah. I learned so much from LinkedIn and, you know, six years is quite a long time and it was, you know, during the majority of my twenties. So definitely my, my formative years. So learned a lot from there. I think the first thing I would say is I am so lucky. I've had so many amazing managers at LinkedIn and I never had a bad one, which I think is very unusual for anyone in their career to say. And so through that, I realized, you know, that managers do make all the difference in a job and can influence you in such positive ways. And, you know, being a great manager is really hard. And so I've been able to take away a lot of lessons from all of mine. So just, you know, a few that come to mind, you know, hire someone who compliments your skillset. So not someone who's exactly like you, you know, always assume best intentions. And this is probably even more relevant, you know, in the virtual world today where tone and messages can kind of get lost. And then the last thing, you know, again, everyone's a person first, so, you know, always lead with, with empathy and care. And then the second thing that, that comes to mind is I would say just to always keep learning. And, you know, I was able to, to do that at LinkedIn. That was one of the values that was important to them and it was important to me too. So you know, I hosted a female founders video series, and then I also had the chance to work abroad in Hong Kong for a year to help launch the daily rundown to the U S audience. So for anyone who's on LinkedIn often, it's going to be that, you know, that top top right module that you see on your feed. So both those experiences were really challenging, but, but new and I grew a lot from them. So it was just a reminder that it's important to keep pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. If you really do want to learn and grow. I, you know, it's so interesting. I had, we had an executive coach on here a few, a few weeks ago, Laurie, she said, she said the exact same thing you said, she's been a coach for 25 years. And she's like, you got, if you, if you don't push yourself, you never grow. You got to like, if you want to grow as a leader or you got to keep pushing yourself, otherwise you start to get stagnant and admit yourself. And so it's interesting that you kind of had just that own experience of, yeah, kind of keep pushing yourself. And the one of the analogies that I've used before, and it was actually from my colleague who, who, and I've used it since, cause it's just, it, for me, it's such a good visual of you push yourself. It's hard. It's hard to be like, you feel it's very uncomfortable. I mean, and you do a good job and all these sorts of things, but then once you do it, you've expanded yourself and you never quite go back to the same shape anymore. And I think that even if it doesn't go as well as you hoped, you still gain something from it. Cause you kind of are like, you've learned something you've reflected. And next time you maybe do even a better job. And so I think that I couldn't agree more. That's great. And you mentioned about your manager is having such a big impact and now you're managing a team and things that you're taking in and, you know, as a manager earlier in your career, like you, you spoke a little bit about it, but maybe we can spend another minute on this and just like, how do you take that responsibility as being a manager or your career? And where do you feel like what parts of that job do you think are, are, are harder than, than you thought? Yeah. So one of the things that drew me to Prezi was the chance to, to manage a team and to, to grow a team from scratch, basically. I think the biggest thing I've realized is that, you know, being a good manager, you know, people can be okay managers. Again, it's hard to be a great manager, but one of the things that will get you to that point is honestly, just like caring about the people, caring that they are enjoying work, caring that they are growing in their careers. I think that already like sets people, you know, so far away from the pack. So that's something I try to, you know, do every day in my one-on-ones or, and, you know, I do monthly like career check-ins to just talk about, you know, any topic that the person wants to talk about. And so I think those, you know, things like that have been really helpful. And then what was your other question you asked about? Anything harder than you thought would be, I mean, I love this. Cause I feel like you're doing such a good job articulating what it's really like and you're doing that. And obviously you're really passionate about excited, but is there anything that's been a bit harder than you than you expected? Let me think. I don't think there's been anything harder, but my team is fairly small right now. So I would imagine as the team grows, what would be difficult is just making sure that everyone is getting the right amount of time and attention from you. And just feeling like they're connected to you and getting the support they need. So that would just be something that I would, you know, want to be extra aware of. Cause even with just a few people on the team, it's already, you know, great managers. It's about good people management. So yeah, I can just see that as a, as a future challenge potentially. Good. Another place to push yourself and grow yourself. Exactly. Good. Good for you. That's great, Lorraine. I love hearing that story and it's, I love that you set this goal and then you made it happen for yourself and, and, and that you're enjoying it so much. I feel like more stories like this and business and technology are exactly why I have this show. So thanks for sharing that. Speaking of goals, one of the other goals you set for yourself this year was, or sorry, not this year, the last two years, I would say during the pandemic was to do more public speaking. And so maybe you can talk a little bit more about why, well, first of all, tell us more about how you came to this realization. Yeah. So I've always known that public speaking is a really important skill to have. And I think it really can be a skill that pushes you to that next level in your career. So anytime you can be like a face for your company or an external spokesperson, so to speak, I think you get seen as a leader. And so, you know, when it comes to public speaking, I think that I've always been, you know, somewhat decent at it, but two things inspired me to want to get even better. So the first is that there's someone at Prezi named Spencer Waldron, and he is such an amazing public speaker. And he's been doing this, I think for 12 years now on big stages and also virtual stages. So I just thought he was so impressive and I wanted to be able to follow his example. And I've been lucky enough that Spencer now is the main person who's been coaching me. And yeah, the second is that, you know, Prezi is a virtual presentation company. So I felt like if I worked at Prezi, I should know how to do presentations and public speaking really well. And I mentioned that video series I founded at LinkedIn and that I hosted. And again, like that was a scary experience, but it was like kind of my first experience being on video. But again, I really learned from that. It was a really great challenge. And so I've just thought, you know, public speaking, virtual presenting, like that's going to be my next one. Okay. Okay. So Spencer is helping mentor you and it sounds like terrific. So how's it going? So thanks for sharing that. So how's it going? Have you, how do you feel? How are you doing against your goal of getting more public speaking? You sound terrific today, Lorraine, but I'd love to hear a little bit more. How's it going? It's going really well. Like I feel very thankful. I started, you know, I started off with the one and then like another one, you know, trickled in and now at this point, I feel like I have at least like a few a month, whether it's like an interview with you, Michelle, or, you know, like a virtual conference. And so it's just really taken off in a way that I wasn't anticipating, but I already feel like I've just grown so much, you know, after every presentation, I share it with Spencer and I ask, you know, does he have any feedback for me? I've also been able, you know, at Prezi to work with a lot of keynote speakers and sometimes they give me feedback as well, which is always, you know, super appreciated. And so again, like another point, like asking for feedback is going to be really key to helping you grow. And I'm loving it. I still get nervous, but less nervous than when I first started and you know, getting positive feedback. So I'm really happy with the way things are going. That's so great. And I think that like one of the things I read recently is that nerves is actually a good thing. It means you care, right? Like I think it's like, it's okay. It means you care. You want to do a good job. And, and, and it actually helps us all perform a little bit better than the fact that we care. And so, yeah, that adrenaline really makes you hyper hyper alert. Okay. So if there are two pieces on this, I'd love, so you said you've gotten feedback along the way. So like, what are some tips of, I want to, first of all, if there's someone listening, you're like, okay, I want to build my public speaking portfolio. We'll talk about that next, but before we get to that, so what are some, either things you've learned along the way or tips you can give for people for how to improve their public speaking personas and delivery that you've learned kind of on this journey? Yeah. So, I mean, this is not new advice, but I would say practicing is key. It really, you really just have to like repeat things, you know, over and over again to just feel more comfortable and not make it seem like such a crazy big thing in your head. When it comes to virtual presenting, there's, you know, a few tips that I like to share with everyone. Keep it visual, you know, so many people are visual learners, our brain processes, visuals, you know, more quickly and better than, you know, a huge slide of bullet points, for example. So keep things visual to keep people engaged. Also making sure that you're adding movement to your presentations is a really big one that I've learned helps keep people's attention. So I'm always moving like two, at least two movements per minute in my virtual presentations to keep people's attention. So movement is the gateway to attention. So I would say, you know, never sit on a slide for like 10 minutes, like whether it's a virtual conference or, you know, just a team meeting, like people are going to zone out for sure. So adding movement is going to be a big way to kind of make yourself stand out. Okay. So movement of the slides, the visual slides, like going from the slide, it can be like just a fade in of a point, like any, just anything that changes on the screen. Amazing. Okay. Perfect. Thank you. I'm going to, that's great. This is super helpful. Okay. And so then now let's say, cause I hear a lot at, especially our team at Cloudflare where we are always trying to help people build their public speaking experience. Cause it's a great lifelong skill. And so if someone's listening and they hear, Oh, wow, Lauren, I also want to build my portfolio. Like where would you recommend that they get started? Like how did you get that first speaking opportunity? How did you get your next? How did you say no to any along the way? Like maybe kind of give us a framework for how to think about this. Yeah. So I kind of alluded to this before, but I'm, you know, lucky that a big part of my job is working with a lot of external partners. So the first thing I did was I let them know that I had a new keynote and to let me know if they knew of any opportunities. So I think the first step would be just reaching out to your existing network and just people won't know if you don't tell them. So that's like a very easy way to get started. And then beyond being, you know, proactive about reaching out again, practice is really going to be key to keep improving and just to constantly improve your presentation. So actually the more I practiced, it was really interesting. I ended up making changes after each presentation because I became, you know, I internalized the content, I knew what it was about, and then I was able to constantly keep improving. And so that opened the door, you know, to more opportunities and more speaking engagements. So that was really helpful as well. And then there are also some really cool organizations out there that I'm involved with. So Shine Bootcamp is a professional speaker accelerator for women. Did not know that existed before I found out, but like super cool. And they have a wonderful team. So definitely go check them out if you're interested. They have courses for how to improve your public speaking. And I'm also part of a group called Innovation Women, which has a huge database of speaking engagements from conference organizers who want to add more diversity and more women voices to their lineup. So that's another really good place to look and also to learn from other fellow speakers as well. Oh my God. I love that. Thank you so much. So many practical tips. This is super helpful. That original keynote that you put together, what was the topic? I don't think I asked you that. Oh yeah. So it's how to stand out on video and boost LinkedIn presence. Okay. Now everybody wants to know that content. So that was a great topic. Did you come up with that? I mean, sometimes I think coming up with the idea of what you're going to talk about is hard. Did you come up with that idea or did Spencer come up with that idea? I guess it was kind of a brainstorm. I think, you know, I knew I wanted to do something around video and LinkedIn because you know, people it's, it's a big name and it draws audiences. And so it was, yeah, just like a brainstorming, learning from Spencer, learning from, you know, other public speakers out there and figuring out, okay, what's going to be most useful to people, especially in this virtual environment. You know, I think I forget since I'm, you know, doing so much of this, but you know, a lot of people just learned how to like unmute themselves on zoom. So there's definitely like a lot of opportunity to just keep educating people and helping them get better. And then Spencer did help me. If you, if you go on my YouTube channel you'll see I give a little story at the beginning. And so Spencer was very instrumental in helping me refine that and kind of like tie all the ideas together. Okay. So you had, you came up, you brainstormed an idea and you had a group to work with on, then who actually helps you craft the content? Did you do that all yourself or do you also have a team to work with? Cause that's a lot of work. I mean, I think one of the things about public speaking is to get the content is a lot of work. And so you get a little bit more insight on that too. Yeah. I think it was mostly me actually who crafted it, but I did, you know, share it with other people, you know, primarily Spencer, who would give feedback on it. But yeah, it was again, like a lot of research reading, looking at what other people were doing to kind of figure out, okay, what's the most interesting to me or do I think is going to be most interesting to others? And then kind of tearing it down that way. But it is, it takes a lot of time, but once you get it down, then, you know, people will keep wanting to see it over and over again. And it's less, less work for you each time. That's great. And then you kind of just edit it. And like you said, you kind of internalize it more and it becomes this, I feel like it gets better and better. I love it. Okay. So the last topic, which is, you know, you talked about YouTube, you talked about LinkedIn, you know, your own Twitter, how do you know where to build these personas? Yeah, that's a good question. So I, my focus is primarily on LinkedIn. You know, maybe that's because I work there, but also my audience, you know, grew a lot when I started writing the daily rundown, again, just an example of relevant and timely content bringing in audiences, but that that's my primary focus, but I know like a lot of like journalists, for example, are on Twitter. So I think what I would recommend for someone who's trying to figure it out is just to experiment. So try the different platforms, try different days, try different times and just see what's resonating. So that would be kind of the first place to start to figure out kind of what, what's the most optimum platform for you. Amazing. Lorraine, you gave us all so many things to think about. We are out of time. I want to have you come back Lorraine, and I'm going to talk to you on next time, next week. Yes, we can. My video is going to look a lot better. Lorraine Lee. Thank you so much for joining. Thank you, Michelle. Thank you so much.