Recruiting Corner

Welcome to the Recruiting Corner on Cloudflare TV. This is the EMEA edition with the EMEA Recruiting Team. So thanks for tuning in, whether you're live or whether you're watching a recording. So before we get into it, why don't we just introduce ourselves. So my name is Lee. I'm part of the EMEA Recruiting Team based in London. I've been with Cloudflare for just over two years. I support our recruiting for our sales team, engineering, a bit of marketing and a number of other teams as well. And yeah, so we're looking forward to this discussion. Anthony, why don't you introduce yourself? Great. I'm Anthony. I've been with Cloudflare since December. So half my time has been spent in the office and half my time has been spent working remotely, which has been an interesting experience. It's been great to join the team. I've worked in a couple of sort of tech and tech adjacent companies beforehand. I'm a recruitment coordinator, so I support all of the recruiting team in EMEA, making sure that all of our interviews are scheduled, all of our candidates know what's happening and make sure that nothing falls through and that everything runs smoothly. Lovely. Akif. Hi everyone, I'm Akif. I'm a sales recruiter, part of the EMEA team, focusing on hiring sales individuals for different regions. I've been here for just over two months now. It's been a really interesting journey so far. I've interviewed completely remotely, started remotely as well. A peculiar experience, but a really, really great one. Nice. And last but not least, Isabel. Hi, I'm Isabel. I'm a recruiter at the EMEA recruiting team and I'm based in Lisbon. I gave support to the recruitment for our Lisbon office and as Akif, I joined about two months ago, so all the process was also done remotely and I also had a chance to start remotely, which has been a very interesting experience. Yeah, and fun fact is that even though we've all been working with each other the past few months, we actually haven't had a chance to meet you Isabel or Akif yet because of the lockdown situation. And it's looking like we probably won't get a chance to meet each other for a while. It's still been a really great experience, obviously the past few months. I think as a team globally, we've been very adaptable to be able to continue hiring as much as we have done. And I think this whole Cloudflare TV thing is a great a great feature of that, the fact that we're doing this and we've got so much live content going on. So without further ado, why don't we get straight into it. So I'm just sharing my screen, hopefully. Can you guys see my screen? Not yet. It's taking a second to come up. Okay. No worries. Right, so still not showing up? Oh, it's taking its time today. I wonder why that is. It's always the way, isn't it? It didn't do this when we did the run through. So it's smooth sailing until things go live. All right, let's just ditch that. Anyway, we don't really need to share the screen. So we've got a few talking points, which we obviously wanted to go through. So obviously this whole segment is about talking about how to apply, how to best apply to roles here at Cloudflare. And so I think we're just going to have a discussion to talk about our observations and best practices from our experience, not only here at Cloudflare, but also our previous experience and share those insights with candidates, be it for roles here at Cloudflare or even just anywhere really. So the first thing we want to, the first point I want to talk about is marketability. So I mean, when we talk about marketability, Akef, what kind of comes to your mind around, you know, what advice would you give to a candidate about how they can improve their marketability as a candidate to Cloudflare? Absolutely. So marketability is really important, I feel, in ensuring that you're really presenting the right message to your employers. Now, it's a product of yourself and your experience. So really kind of tidying up, say your LinkedIn and every recruiter and every organization out there uses LinkedIn when they're hiring, even if it's a direct application. So just keeping the data on your LinkedIn clean, keeping even in some cases like social media, what you're kind of engaged in and what you're posting that's public, making sure that that's professional. It doesn't need to be completely clean, like you need to obviously present yourself and your personality. But then it all does relate to some searches when you're thinking about some kind of senior, senior hires for sure. But then again, just going back to LinkedIn and just making sure that the data there is matching your CV, the dates, having the information in terms of what you've done. It's a product of you. So just making sure that that is up to scratch is really, really important. Yeah. What about you, Isabel? I mean, obviously you've got the international perspective. Obviously you cover all of our roles in Lisbon, but you've also covered other locations as well. From your reservations so far over the past couple of months, when somebody's applying for a role in Lisbon, have you got any kind of tips that you might share with a candidate? Well, regarding marketability, I'll completely agree with what Kev said in terms of how you present yourself and regarding tips, even on how you use your own network. So you have both parts. I think it's very important, as Kev mentioned, to keep your social media clean. We have to remember that nowadays we live in an age where you can find any type of information at a distance of a click from the comfort of your own couch and anyone can do it. So you have to keep that in mind. And when you are exposing yourself, you have to realize that as you can find information, anyone can find information of you. So this, of course, you always have to have some type of balance, but try to show to the world how you want the world to perceive you. And this applies, of course, for when you are applying to a job. So try to keep it clean, try to keep it professional, especially around the opinions that you give. Because at the end of the day, you don't want to miss some type of opportunity because something that you did was not that well thought. So think about that. Even regarding specifically about LinkedIn, it's still one of the most used tools on recruitment. And it's the first place where recruiters will check your data, even when you send a CV. I speak to myself, I often also check the LinkedIn to see if people have some references or some other information that they did not put on the CV as volunteer work or other things. So try to keep it updated with the right dates, with information of what you've done, if you can have references from past co-workers or team leaders. I think it always benefits and I think it works for Lisbon and anywhere else. Yeah. And you mentioned, you know, kind of keeping, you know, your social media kind of clean. I know I personally, I just look at the candidates' CVs, I know some other, you know, recruiters or hiring managers do like to check out people's social media. I mean, what about you guys? Is that something that you guys do when you're kind of checking somebody out? I can. After you Isabel. Okay. So usually not deliberately, but it's very common for you, especially in Lisbon. I don't know how you feel about that, but especially in Portugal, the market is really small and it's really easy to have connections. So it's really easy for me to go to my Instagram or Facebook or Twitter and happen to see a post of someone that yesterday applied to a job. So not deliberately, but it may come to something. And sometimes you might have an opinion that you should express your opinions, but you also need to think on how you present them to the public. What were you going to say, Akif? I was going to say not specifically for sales hiring, but previously when I applied for some, let's say public sector or hiring into public sector organizations, there's an element of a security background and DBS checks that individuals need to do. And part of that parcel and part of a recruiter's responsibility is to make sure that there's nothing alarming before you get into that process. And social media, sometimes it highlights that if it's not you, that's actually posting it, then sometimes people can post things that you've been involved in that is again, ruining your professional appearance, which will then come up in further DBS checks. Yeah, good point. So the next point was going to be do your research. And I'd be interested in your thoughts actually on this, Anthony, because you being kind of the interface with candidates around scheduling, you actually get quite a few candidates asking you questions around what they should prepare and things like that. And so what's kind of, I'd love to get your perspective on what research do you think candidates can do ahead of their application, not even before interview, ahead of their application to really strengthen their profile? Yeah, 100%. It's really interesting. I've seen a whole scope of requests and questions from candidates once I've been in touch with them, whether to find out when they're available for the interview or to confirm their schedule, you know, all the way from like, who is this person? What do they do through to how should I prepare? What kind of questions will I be asked? And it's a really interesting kind of question and area of interest to navigate because there's an element where we want to make sure a candidate is, I think this is true for any company in any role, that the candidate has the wherewithal to go and do the research and their due diligence themselves. So we don't want to, I don't think any recruiting team want to spoon feed their candidates information because we want it to be a true representation of them. And if any candidate is successful in a role, you want to know that they will be able to sort of stand on their own two feet, take challenges head on and do all the kind of background work needed to kick off any kind of projects or things that they might be working on. So just how a candidate initially kind of approaches their research really says a lot about a candidate, I always think. So I tend to kind of get a slight idea as to if a candidate says to me, oh, who is this person? What's their job title? It kind of initially says to me, oh, this candidate might not have spent some time doing research into the various people that are on the confirmation. And sometimes people would just want quick answers. And I think we've all, we can all be quite lazy, especially today when you can just pick up your phone and google something straight away. And we expect the information to come really quickly. And I think sometimes people will just respond back to an interview confirmation to say, oh, and ask loads of questions without just taking the time to pause, read that information, go and do some research. And then if there's information they feel they've not been able to find, then to come back with those questions that feel a bit more developed, a little bit more thought out. And it's information that they might not have been able to find easily. You know, Cloudflare is a great company. I mean, I've previously worked at Facebook, for example, where it can be quite difficult to try and find nuanced information about a company aside from conjecture and input from media. But Cloudflare is great because you have this huge blog that's just full of information. Cloudflare TV is a valuable resource that I think lots of people have probably come to learn over the last couple of weeks of seeing different segments. So I think making sure that you use the available options that are out there is really important. And there's a whole wealth of information, whether it's people talking about their experiences of moving from country to country with Cloudflare on the blog, to understanding more about how we support different employee resource groups like Proudflare or Afroflare that kind of celebrate the communities that are within our company. You can kind of find out a whole host of things. So for me, seeing a candidate that doesn't ask those straight away kind of gunshot questions that are kind of just immediate, trying to get some answers, tells me that a candidate is going to be quite well prepared for their interview and they're going to take it upon themselves to be well prepared. And then what tends to follow that obviously is normally a successful interview, I would assume. I'm almost not in the room all the time and don't speak to those candidates, but I think normally if someone's done that groundwork, what they build on top of that within the interview normally is very successful. Yeah, and Akif, obviously you focus on a lot of our sales related roles. Is there any kind of like sales specific research that you would perhaps maybe recommend to a candidate ahead of their application? Yeah, absolutely. And I think if you think about doing your research, I think that's probably candidates biggest downfalls to not getting through a process of not even being selected for a role. And part of my role and part of me doing preliminary screens with candidates is to test one's curiosity. Right now, if you're not coming from a similar industry to what we do, then absolutely do some research on what this is about and leverage your network, speak to people who may know a little bit more about what we do. If you come to that interview showing that you've no research, then it doesn't really show much kind of coachability in that sense, right? If you've got a great background, if you've got great experience, then absolutely we can look at a candidate from a sales perspective and we can say, okay, look, they've got great curiosity, they've done some research on what we do. We can kind of pick up on that enthusiasm, that motivation and think, this is someone who we can coach and transfer those vital skills. But then on the other side of it, if you haven't done that, how curious and how motivated are you really to get into this specific industry? So that's something that I think is really, really important. So not just when you get into actual recruiting stages and hiring manager interviews and peer interviews, apply to that, even when you're speaking to recruiters. Yeah, and Isabel, what about, what's your thoughts on candidates doing their research before they apply? I completely agree with everything that was said and more. I think there is not enough to say about doing the research and in my opinion, I think it's the basis for having success on your interview. Lots of times, I cannot mention the amount of times when candidates ask me about what type of preparation should they do for the interview on what they can expect on next stages. And the truth is that more than knowing if you are going to prepare for a tech interview or the type of questions that will be approached, more important than that is the research that you do by yourself on the company. So regarding Cloudflare, you have lots of tools at your disposal. You can Google the company on LinkedIn. You can go and visit our tech blog. You can search for people on LinkedIn. If you go before an interview, if you take the time to see the names of the interviewers, go to LinkedIn, search the profiles and prepare a few questions that are adapted to their profiles. Also, one thing that I personally think it's important is to try to understand by what you see what is the company culture and see if the values match your own. And yeah, I think that's a lot we can talk about research, but yeah, for me, it's fundamental. Yeah, I think that's a great point, isn't it? That, you know, quite often in Cloudflare especially, there'll be people that are interviewing you that don't all do the same role that you're applying for and aren't going to be your direct manager. You know, you're not going to be managed by four to five people. So all those people are doing different roles in the company and you're likely being interviewed by them because there will be a stakeholder or a partner in your role to join us. So having questions that are prepared specifically to that person's role in the company, whether it's someone in HR and how you would interact with them or someone in a different department and how they work with the sales team, for example, it's really good to make sure you do that research into your questions that you're going to have for the interviewers specifically. For sure. And you actually touched on this when you were making your point, Akif, about leveraging your network. And that actually happens to be the next topic that we're going to talk about. So leveraging your network. You know, how can someone who's about to hit submit on their application leverage their network, be it on LinkedIn or, you know, their professional network to help them in terms of preparation or help that actually amplify their application after it's submitted to give them a better chance? You know, what would you, if you had a friend or family member or somebody approach you on LinkedIn, what would be your recommendations on that point there, Akif? So it's the whole point of LinkedIn, really, and it's not what you know, it's who you know, in a lot of cases, right? And that saying really, really does resonate well when you're applying for new roles. Now, let's say, for example, if you're submitting an application through LinkedIn, LinkedIn will actually tell you, you've actually got so-and-so connection that work at this company. You can also go further into it. You can go on to our Cloudflare page on LinkedIn. And then again, we'll show you, you can actually dig in further by using filters, by looking at first and second degree connections. Reach out to those people, right? If you've got people in the company, reach out to them and say, hey, look, I've just submitted my application. I see that you're working here, like you're working at so-and-so company. Tell me a little bit more about the culture. Tell me a little bit more about the process. So it helps you better prepare yourself and your applications as well. But not only that, like as in doing that kind of due diligence, you can also go further into it. If you're making a sales application, it's for a specific region, let's say, then do your research, do your search on LinkedIn and try and find a sales manager or sales leader. Connect with that person and say, hey, look, I'm not sure if you're the direct hiring manager for this role, but I've just submitted my application. Just those extra words, they go a lot longer when you're just submitting an application and just waiting for someone to get back to you. Yeah, exactly. Especially when you consider the volume of applications that we get, which for some roles can be a good few hundred. You want anything that's going to give you a small edge or get your profile noticed, right? Yeah. So cover letters. Isabel, what's your thoughts on cover letters? Well, I think that cover letters are a debate topic. You love it or some people love it, just don't look at them. On my opinion, I personally only look at a cover letter when I have some doubts on the CV, so I don't think it's the most important thing. But my advice on the cover letters is that it doesn't harm to send. You have to keep in mind that when you are sending a cover letter, it might not be even open and you might feel that it can be a waste of time. But there are also people who really value cover letters and for those people, it can make the difference. So keep that in mind. So it doesn't work. It doesn't hurt to send, to do it. The other thing is that if you decide to do a cover letter, make sure that you do a professional one. Make sure that it doesn't have any type of error on the cover letter and make sure that it's adjusted to the company and to the role that you are applying for. I don't see any use on using a template that you just change the name of the company or the name of the role and just send it to everywhere. Because in that case, it doesn't make much of a difference. You can use a few things, of course, of your experience on what you do. But if you don't adjust it a bit, it won't make much difference. So if you decide to do it, do it adjusted to the role and to the company you are looking for. And maybe include some things, some extra things that you don't put on your CV like some volunteer work or some projects that were involved. Something that you want to highlight, but that shouldn't be on your CV. Sure. And what about you, Akev? Do you read cover letters? To be honest with you, no, I don't. I think that cover letters can be good for some type of roles. And just to echo what Isabel said, if you've got any doubts or you don't clearly understand a candidate and their background from looking at their CV, then cool. You should be able to look at a cover letter and it should be able to outline what you're all about. I've only found it useful for entry level candidates where graduates can talk about what they've done at uni and what they've done in their dissertations and why that specific organisation is of interest to them. But yeah, I think that that's as far as it goes for cover letters and me. I'm just keen to get your guys' thoughts. Actually, sorry, Akev. After you, Isabel. No, I was saying that it's interesting that I think that you have the two opposites on cover letters. I think that they are most read on very junior people or on very senior for some very senior roles. Yeah, I think their relevance or their usefulness depends very much on the role. I think there are some roles where you really should be able to fit all the relevant information on your CV and there should be no need for a cover letter. But I think I'm kind of with Akev, I don't really read cover letters. But that's perhaps because the majority of the roles that I've recruited for don't really require it. I think if the company that you're applying for specifically asks for one, then by all means, you should. But if not, you should be able to really fit all the relevant information on your CV, which brings us nicely on to our next point, which is your CV or your resume. And interestingly, Akev, we were talking about this briefly the other day about, you know, what is the ideal length of a CV? So why don't you kick us off and give us your thoughts on that? So I probably have a very controversial view on this and all business world out there and many other recruiters will say one to two pages maximum. So my views on that is I completely disagree. If you're a well -tenured and well-experienced individual, it's going to be really, really tough for you to fit in your experience and what your achievements are and basically, again, what you're marketing yourself as on one to two pages. So I wouldn't, my advice to people is don't limit yourself. Don't sell yourself short if you're trying to cram everything into one to two pages. And in terms of like, just the format and so forth, like you've got to think recruiters and companies out there, when they're going through CVs, they want to get straight to the important bits. They want to have a look at what you've been doing recently, what you've been doing previous to that, what your key skills are. So format is really important. So I'd like to see kind of key skills and experiences at the very top, then flows nicely into your experience, what you've done, highlight some of your key achievements. If you're a sales individual, talk about your achievements in Q1, Q2, Q3, Q4. They definitely want to know, hiring managers definitely want to see that. And then education at the bottom. There's also another topic around hobbies and so forth. But to be honest, I don't really look at that, but just keen to get your guys' thoughts on it. Yeah, so I'm probably the more traditional in that I think, you know, a good CV should be about two pages. If it's any longer than that, I'll send it to you, Akef, so that you can read through it. But yeah, I think, you know, keeping the CV nice and concise, definitely helps. Obviously, if you're a lot more tenured, it could be a bit more challenging to do that, I understand. And so we actually did have one more topic to cover, which was, you know, kind of over applying, but we're actually pretty much out of time. I think we've only got about one minute left. So we might have to maybe, you know, save that for our next segment. But just to summarize, so we talked about the importance of doing your research, you know, how to, you know, kind of make yourself more marketable and leveraging your network. We covered, you know, the importance of cover letters. And we briefly touched on, you know, the format of your CV and your resume and how long it should be. I think we will be definitely having another segment in the next couple of weeks or so, where we can cover more topics and maybe even have somebody from the