In this episode of Customer Cloudversations, Kayla Geigerman and Keith Cantrell from Cloudflare will meet with Aditya Bansod, CTO and Co-founder of Luma Health to discuss their usage of Cloudflare Waiting Room and today's health landscape.
Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining this segment of Customer Cloudversations, our semi-regular segment on Cloudflare TV.
On Customer Cloudversations, we take the time to meet with different Cloudflare customers, learn about who they are, what they do, what makes their business so special, and kind of shine the spotlight on them.
We also like to discuss best practices, industry-related topics and their Cloudflare use cases.
So that is what we will be doing here today with Aditya from LumaHealth.
I am Kayla. I am on the Customer Advocacy team here at Cloudflare.
And I am also joined by Keith from Cloudflare. Keith, if you want to introduce yourself.
Yep. Keith Cantrell, Solutions Engineer with Cloudflare. Been working with the waiting room product since it's been in beta.
So it's really fun to get customers like LumaHealth onboarded with Cloudflare.
Awesome. Thank you for joining me today, Keith.
And Aditya, do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself and talk a little bit about LumaHealth?
Sure. It'd be my pleasure.
And thanks for having me here today on Cloudflare TV. My name is Aditya Bansod.
I'm one of the founders and CTO at LumaHealth. And we're a patient engagement solution, making it easy for patients to get access to healthcare, whether it's your primary care doctor or a specialist.
Everything we do is really in the service of making it easier for the patient to communicate, schedule, get access to, and follow up with their healthcare provider.
And some of the work that we wanted to share with you today and talk about today is the work that we've done with Cloudflare to actually make that possible at scale.
So at various set of different deployments that we've done, being able to schedule appointments, specifically vaccine appointments, required us to rely on some of the technologies that Cloudflare had available to really take our operations where we would typically scale in healthcare, which is the wide variety of complicated procedures, appointments, procedures like doctor types, visit types, to the more technology and Internet scale type of usage of the word scale, which is to hundreds of thousands and millions of people on our products at the same time.
So again, Aditya, one of the founders and CTO at Luma, I'm very excited to be able to join both of you today on Cloudflare TV.
Awesome. Thank you so much, Aditya. So let's go a little bit back to the beginning of Luma.
You're a co-founder. Tell me how this business came to be.
Yeah. So there are three co-founders on our founding team myself, and I kind of come from the technologist product manager sort of background.
One of our other co -founders is from kind of the more business background and a third co-founder is a physician.
He's a radiologist. And a lot of everything that we've done has kind of been built through Dr.
Ekram's kind of like North Star guidance, the kind of problems that he would see and continues to see every day in the clinical practice.
You know, whether it's, hey, I'm a physician, I want to see more patients and service them better.
But I know if a patient comes to try to see me, they won't be able to be seen by me to get an imaging study done or an x-ray for four to six weeks.
Who wants to wait that long when they have an acute need that they want to get seen for?
And so a lot of the products that we built kind of at the beginning, were the three of us really solutioning around some of these very practical things that we as patients really have these problems that we engage when we try to access healthcare, which is it's hard to see a doctor.
Doctors are never available. You call the doctor's office, good luck actually speaking to a physician or to a healthcare professional.
And when you want to get care, it's never on your terms.
And so LUMO was really founded around the idea that, you know, needing healthcare is hard.
Being able to get healthcare shouldn't be hard.
And so we've built a set of solutions over the last about six years, six and a half years that really helped enable scale up our operation to about 550 different healthcare systems from the likes of Montefiore Health in the Bronx, Cook County Health System in Chicago, UC San Francisco in California, down to smaller independent physicians groups to really help them kind of enable what we call patient journeys, help them craft a patient journey that lets them guide, nurture, retain patients throughout that entire workflow.
Yeah. So it looks like you touch, you know, all corners of the country here.
So what are the top priorities for a company that's so widespread?
Yeah. I mean, right now, you know, we are a six and a half year old company and we're really growing very, very rapidly, both in terms of scale and customer footprint and features and capabilities, sort of all the things you want to have in kind of like the typical up into the right scenario.
That's been kind of our last couple of years and continues to be what we've the future.
For us, the top priorities are really about kind of helping our customers engage in what's become a very challenging and changing healthcare environment.
So COVID has been terrible for everybody. I mean, I don't think there's very few positive stories out of COVID, but one of the things that's kind of happened out of COVID is healthcare systems really re -evaluating how they deliver services to patients.
And one of the really, I'll call it pejorative ways that we talk about healthcare is a lot of people say, why isn't healthcare as easy as checking into, you know, my flight?
Well, there's, you know, there's three airlines in America, really three or four airlines.
And there's maybe in your own backyards, you know, maybe I know both of you guys are in the Austin, Texas area.
There's like seven to eight major healthcare systems, and that's just in Austin alone.
And so it's much more complicated, much more sophisticated, but this change that happened in this is really been about like trying to think about the patient at the center of their healthcare experience and really treating the patient as a consumer who actually can make a choice between, Hey, I'm going to go to health system A or independent Dr.
B, or, you know, maybe go to Walgreens or CVS or Target to go get my healthcare.
And so for us, our real priority has been helping healthcare systems kind of really build upon that desire they've had in the last couple of years to really consumerize and make human scaled, a human scaled healthcare system that puts a patient at the center of that experience.
Cool. That sounds awesome.
And you know what, you made some really good points here. I'd, I'd never even thought about that.
You know, you go on your provider's website and you're like, okay, I just need to find someone in my, in my area.
And then there's like 75,000 people for you to choose from.
And then you're like, okay, well, I'm just going to go to urgent care because I'm.
Yeah. And the first question oftentimes you ask is, uh, are they close?
Are they available soon? And they take my inference, right?
And so that's, those are tough questions that patients have to answer every day.
And oftentimes, you know, lead them to, you know, okay, outcomes, what are the best outcomes?
Are they great for the patient's long-term care?
I think the interesting part is we have to flip the script around and say, Hey, healthcare systems, how do I make it easy for patients to have these dialogues with me?
And so that's really kind of at the forefront of how we look at, um, using a lot of the different touch points, whether it's SMS, email, voice, or web to drive the patient engagements that help them make those appropriate choices.
I'm sure that's another part of the confusing thing.
Each health provider probably has its own way of interfacing with it.
And some are probably really hard and some are easy.
Yeah. I mean, you go to, you know, I live in San Francisco and you go look at like my local clinic.
I can have the local clinic, a city clinic, I have the academic systems of the commercial systems of the Catholic systems.
I can pick from any of these and they're all present the same sort of thing in a very, very different way.
And being able to like actually pick and choose and understand that it's tough for me as a patient.
So if I'm a healthcare system who are Luma health customers, my job is to provide an excellent experience to them.
No matter if they came to me through a text message, they sent to the phone number that's on my website or they went to the doctor finder on my, you know, find a doctor page.
Yeah. And so let's rewind about, I don't know, 18 months now.
And what was it like for you guys when you saw, you know, this, this pandemic on the horizon, how did it, was it like day and night?
What kind of changes were you seeing? Yeah. I mean, first and foremost was a struggle.
So healthcare systems kind of being, you know, now we know where the hindsight in 2020, March, April, May, there's not a lot of more stressful places than a doctor's office waiting room.
You're never happy. People are probably there because they're sick and you don't know why they're sick and do they have COVID and it was going to make me sick and my family's sick.
So a lot of our healthcare practices have this very, very immediate knee-jerk reaction saying, what do I do?
Like, I need help. What do I do? So we took an opportunity to really kind of, kind of just try to do the right thing for our healthcare partners.
And we actually, what, what we ended up doing is actually giving away a lot of our products away at cost or free from almost all the capabilities.
We made them available free, whether it's our large scale broadcast messaging capability, where you can message a hundred to 200 to 300,000 patients, you know, saying like, Hey, you might've been in the vicinity of someone who had COVID all the way up to, as we moved forward in the pandemic, new telehealth options that we made available and new virtual waiting room options that we made available.
So I think kind of like, you know, go back 18 months, it was really about like communication, got to communicate with people and let them know what's going on.
And I'm sure you all remember that where you know, your barber or your grocery store, it's like how we're fighting the pandemic.
Like there's basically, you just learned what mailing lists you were on.
And so healthcare providers are no different, but they actually had a, had a clinical obligation to like actually communicate their patients saying like, we may not be open for your essential services, your non -essential services, whatever it might be.
So, but as the tape played forward, we went from like the first inning to like, you know, halfway through the game, we really started seeing evolution and kind of like, okay, how do we open up safely?
How do we do that?
Hey, Luma, can you actually provide unique services to help with that?
And that's kind of those two products that we've talked about that we've developed one, which was a zero contact waiting room.
So you could wait in your car, text and arrive, you get a little status board inside your clinic that you can kind of see who was waiting in the parking lot.
And the other was telehealth.
So let patients provide kind of get that office visit type of experience at home.
And that's both been phenomenal products. We've been really fortunate to have great health system partners who are very interested in taking a lean forward approach.
And also we're very helpful for us to actually like provide guidance as we look to scale those products up from like betas to full -fledged production products.
Awesome. So let's transition into, you know, your partnership with Cloudflare and how you've been working with us.
I believe that you said that, you know, just from past conversations, you've been actually using Cloudflare for about six years now.
It's funny you say that like Cloudflare may have been the second thing I put the company credit card when we got the credit card.
And so it was almost one of the absolute first purchases that we made at Luma.
And it's funny, I had actually never been a Cloudflare customer before, but to me when I was, you know, kind of me and my kind of founding team were like, this is one of the pieces that's going to be foundational to what we do.
And lo and behold, six and a half, almost seven years later, like that story and that talk track has been true since, you know, since February, 2015.
That's awesome. And Keith is a solutions engineer that you work with.
And he actually was very instrumental in helping you guys with the Cloudflare waiting product that you guys used a lot for vaccines.
So I'm going to turn it over to Keith and he'll talk and you guys will have a little conversation about how that came to be.
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, talk to people, you know, let's talk about how you integrated the waiting room into your application and kind of start off with how people normally would interact with the application and then how you came to the idea that, gee, this waiting room would be a great and how it worked out.
Yeah. More than happy to. And for healthcare kind of writ large, one of the challenges in healthcare is getting a patient to care, to engage in their own healthcare, right.
Getting people to go to your website, to like explore all the content that you've got, all that sort of stuff.
I mean, that's a struggle. And so, you know, patients make terrible patients, people make terrible patients, but we want to make people into great patients.
And that's kind of one of the adages, if you will, of healthcare, but suddenly kind of come December, January, February of this year, there was a title shift due to COVID vaccines that I don't think anyone's ever seen before in healthcare, where you could not provide healthcare fast enough.
The supply, the demand 40, 50, a thousand to one outstripped kind of what was available, both in terms of technical infrastructure, but also vaccine supply, you know, nurses gousing, you know, bandages that are used, that are put on after a vaccine is applied, all this sort of stuff.
Like every Creek was shown because healthcare has been built for actually, like, you know, just the struggle to pull in the teeth, to get your patients to show up.
And so Luma helps products.
We provide a set of web-based among many other things. We provide a set of web-based scheduling solutions.
And what we typically did was, you know, it's a button that lives on the provider's website or the health system's websites says, click here to schedule.
Now you go to a hosted C named kind of a branded portal.
It's actually Luma click, you know, my name, my date of birth, click a time book.
It's all done. Right. And, you know, you see good transaction volumes, but you know, it's, you know, self-care, right.
So you're going to see a lot, but you're not going to see bonkers come vaccines.
What we started to see was like, I mean, there's no, yeah, there's no, like, I have no professional experience.
That was quite like this, which is like, you know, it goes like this and the blur will make it a little hard to see.
And then it that's her might as well have gone backwards.
Right. Like basically like demand is just like through the healthcare is not built for Internet scale, right?
It's just not right. There's a lot of my SQL date and like Microsoft SQL database is sitting in the doctor's office, like server closet.
You know, that's, that's, I mean, that's just healthcare, right? That's what had been built for before there's inter-systems cache, some Oracle out there.
And there's just like a huge variety of stuff. That's not built for the transactional volumes that you would see here.
And so he's really like, you know, how do we even think about this?
Actually, I had seen the project fair shot headline on a hacker news post.
And so I'm kind of like a diligent kind of like hacker news or a dork.
And so, you know, I like peruse it like a couple of times a day. And so we're starting to see these numbers go to places where we're like, there's going to be some very, very tough conversations with our customers ahead of us because no one's provisioned for this.
Like the only people that really can do this or ticket master, like literally in ticket masters, not in this game.
And so when we started, we had, we were able to on our own with like a lot of very late nights, a lot of tuning scale up to where we're feeling like Beyonce concert size venues, like on a daily basis.
But when you're trying to sell out like, you know, an entire Beyonce tour on a regular basis, like on a daily basis, we're, it's just, we were never going to be provisioned for that.
And there's no way we could get there in short order.
And so I remember in the back of my head, this, you know, hacker news posts. And I was like, Hey, I should look at this fair shot thing.
So I went ahead and kind of saw the page.
I was like, this is, this is, this is going to be our jam. Like this is, this is going to be the silver bullet we were looking for.
And so, and that's kind of how we started down the, that's kind of how we started down this rabbit hole.
Right. So cool. And so did you get the results you needed? Did it, you know, meet with the people like you needed to, so you didn't have to over provision your resources?
Yeah. And one of the things that was, and you were asking, sorry, Keith, you're asking like, how did we implement in the application?
And that kind of get to the question that you're asking, I think hopefully, which was implementing it was unbelievably easy.
It was shockingly easy. I think we had a build up and going in, call it four to six hours.
The basics that are, we're getting lacrosse talk.
The basics that are provided out of the box by Cloudflare. And that was awesome.
And one of the things that we're able to do, because actually the initial build was so fast, we're able to then customize the look and feel for our customers.
So it stayed with that. Like we're living in the context of our healthcare system.
We're able to provide custom styling, Cloudflare made it really easy to get custom markup in there.
And so we were able to get the benefits very, very quickly.
I think if it had been like, okay, now implement this API and then go put this application library in your application, we would have really struggled.
But the speed to impact, which is kind of one of these things we talk about a lot at Luma is what's the speed to impact on any activity you're taking?
It was so immediate that we were able to light it up, get it deployed into one of our largest deployments.
I think within, I think Keith, you and I were talking to Saturday and we were live on a Monday or something like that.
It was pretty quick. It's easy, easy technology to just integrate right in front.
So that worked out really well.
And one of the cool things that we were able to do in this effort was we use the waiting room as kind of the, I want to call it like the guardian at the front of the process, but it was an opportunity for us to really invest more deeply in the Cloudflare platform where we actually, because of Cloudflare sort of DNS based approach to actually being able to be a reverse proxy in front of us, we are actually able to take some very high transaction volume things.
So they take a lot of IO off of our front ends and then move them into Cloudflare Workers because they're more like just compute pieces.
They don't need a lot of data.
They're not like particularly high security operations or anything.
So we moved them into Cloudflare workers and that further let us take a bit of a bunch of the transaction volume off of our front ends, push them to the Cloudflare edge.
So we had the waiting room kind of protecting the entirety of the experience and we're able to offload a chunk of the actual, you know, these kind of rope sort of things like token validation or, you know, template rendering, that sort of stuff where we could just really use how easy it was to leverage some of the Cloudflare pieces to make that happen.
Great. So after you deployed all this, did you see any other benefits besides just, you know, slowing down the traffic to your site?
Were there any other side benefits? Yeah, I mean, one of the nice things that we're able to do is, and I was mentioning that we were able to customize the markup.
And so we, in this customer deployment in the Chicago area in Cook County, they did a model, which was kind of different than most places I've seen, which was called releases, where they were going to get a shipment of 10,000 vaccines on a Sunday, which means Monday at 10 a.m.
They'd open the floodgates at 10 a.m.
first come first serve, which is, you know, kind of from a systems planning perspective, it's pretty tough because it's like you're in peak load and you can't amortize it out.
But one of the nice things that we're able to do is we're able to use the markup and actually edit it live.
So as people on the waiting room page, we could tell them there's 7,000 vaccine appointments remaining, there's 4,000 vaccine appointments remaining, there's a thousand, you know, so even though waiting room is smart and letting people in kind of as our systems could handle it, people who are there didn't have that negative experience, right?
They're actually told like, hey, you know what, there's 45,000 people waiting for 10,000 appointments.
So you're more than welcome to wait, or you can abandon it's your choice now.
And that was this very, it was a very cool unexpected benefit, I think that we got, Keith.
Right. So it gave users a good user experience.
So they knew what they were expecting. Yeah. And, you know, the height of, you know, the peak of vaccines in April, you know, it's hard to get an appointment, you're frustrated.
The worst thing to do is you land on a webpage, you're like, clicking refresh, nothing, clicking refresh, nothing, clicking refresh, nothing.
At least in this model, we're able to say like, hey, you can wait, you're rolling the dice, but at least you know where you stand.
Right. That's all the questions I have, yeah.
I was just going to say, you know, for people who don't know, Cook County is in the Chicago area.
There's about like 5 million residents in that population.
So what kind of feedback did you get from the client when you were able to implement Waiting Room?
Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest one for us is can you guys keep it alive?
Can you keep the product going? And please help vaccinate our county.
So Cook County is the second largest county in the United States, after Los Angeles County, and right above Harris County, I think in Texas, wherever Dallas is.
And so it's like, you know, doesn't get much bigger than that in terms of American populations.
And for us, kind of the real the crux of it all was exactly what you said, which was, can you make it work for our county?
Can you make it work so that we don't end up in the news? Like, it's, you know, highly, highly sensitive topic.
You know, there's no shortage of news stories around how health IT was failing, how it's hard to get a vaccine appointment showed up.
And, you know, then you had the other side of story, which is like, vaccines are expiring on the shelf, like all this, you know, so managing that supply and demand was just like an incredibly challenging thing.
And so being able to fill a, you know, vaccine super site with patients, and be able to provide an experience that people understood, something a lot of people have experienced with the Waiting Room concept, I think the Cloudflare experience made it easy to provide that same concept to patients, that they would have been experienced like Ticketmaster or whatever it might have been, was received very positively, right?
It was like, we're up, we're running, we're good, we're good to go.
Awesome. And so, as you mentioned, you know, the height of the vaccine stuff was April, was April, May.
But, you know, with this new Delta variant, there's a possibility of boosters and things like that.
What changes do you foresee coming up in the next couple of months?
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a dealer's choice. What do you think? I think there's going to be a lot of unknowns ahead of us.
I think we're under a wide variety of changing mandates right now, state to state, county to county, city to city.
And I think there had been a large amount of vaccine hesitancy that has remained in a big chunk of the US population.
I think one of the really interesting things that we saw was, I don't know if you guys remember, there's the warning that came out about the J&J vaccine.
Like, it was like, you know, it may cause blood clots, whatever it is.
And so we were seeing the numbers and they were like this, you know, for all vaccine types, the J&J one happens, that news comes out, and it goes down here and it never really fully recovers after that kind of pacing.
So one of our health system partners actually had a really interesting point they said to me, which was, this is now a ground game, right?
It used to be, let's stand up the, you know, Oracle Arena in the Bay Area.
Let's stand at the Moscone Center in San Francisco.
We'll have people come to us. Now the script got flipped and say, like, we'll send buses out to you, right?
And try to help you guys get your sites vaccinated.
So I think with Delta, I think we're going to see something very, very similar.
I think we're going to look, again, I'm not a healthcare professional.
I just simply work in healthcare. So, you know, warning to all the viewers out there.
And so, but I think we're going to end up seeing a lot of clinical data that's going to come out from the major, you know, pharmaceuticals that's going to tell us guidance on what we should expect.
And then, you know, healthcare systems and, you know, certain populations might have a very specific need where we're going to have to ramp back up again.
And I think we're seeing the early signs and you read this, you all read the same news that I do.
It's like, we're seeing certain populations, certain countries are offering booster shots to the 65 and up, immunocompromised, whatever it might be.
And if that becomes the case, we're going to have this ramp up, I believe, of very specific scheduling, very specific healthcare IT needs where, you know, what does it look like to provide boosters, high velocity sites, healthcare IT to support it, specifically in certain geographies, specifically in say nursing homes, specifically in X, Y, and Z.
So I think you're going to see, it's going to look not quite the same as what it did in February, March, April, but, you know, it's not, it's still the same color, if not the same, it's still ice cream.
It's a Neapolitan ice cream to, I hate, I love abusing metaphors, but you know, it's still ice cream, right?
It's just not going to be all three flavors in one tin.
Awesome. That is an interesting metaphor when I have not heard before.
So again, I'm just doing this live. So, so, you know, you had mentioned that, you know, sometimes there's a little bit of criticism around, around, you know, health care, healthcare IT and everything like that.
I assume, you know, this was a big wake up call for a lot of people. And that landscape is going to continue to change and improve and get better.
How is Lume Health going to, to continue with this transformation?
So I think one of the things that became really interesting out of healthcare, out of this, both like the genesis, if you will, of COVID and how it impacts healthcare, but also vaccines was twofold.
One is helping healthcare systems think about the patient as a, not just a transaction where your body is a billing code, your body's a copay, but really it's a lifetime set of experiences that you have from, you know, effectively from cradle to grave with a healthcare system.
So, you know, with vaccines, we start, we were talking a lot about the third appointment.
So, you know, the first and second appointment, the ones you need to get, but then how do I as a healthcare system, make sure I ensure your health at the third appointment, right?
Do I schedule, try to get you in for an annual wellness visit?
Do I actually check your blood pressure and actually be like, Hey, you might be at risk for something.
Let's get you talk to a someone.
So how do I help kind of navigate that third appointment to provide better lifetime experiences for those patients?
But I think the other big piece that really came to bear was the need for platforms and healthcare.
So there's really been a dearth of people who really apply platform thinking and healthcare vendors who apply platform thinking into, into these solutions.
And I think Cloudflare is kind of, you know, it's a, it's probably a story that you guys could very well resonate with, which is providing stovepipe solutions.
Like I am a, emailing platform for healthcare. I am a scheduling platform for healthcare.
You know, when we had to quickly turn the crank to figure out novel ways to get that third appointment, but to get the first appointment, you know, these stovepipe kind of very verticalized solutions really were like, but healthcare, it leaders and CIO saying like, okay, I've got this over in this vendor got this.
Can I get an, can I literally, can I get a CSV from location A to location B over SFTP?
And we're like, Hey, we have a platform where you can craft that journey.
However you want to craft it in order to service those patients, not just for today to get that vaccine appointment, but also that third appointment in the future.
So I think this kind of evolution towards platform thinking is one of these pieces that I think is changing pretty rapidly in healthcare where you see, and we kind of are starting to hear kind of what we, when we talk to folks, this concept of a healthcare operating system where you need to be able to build the base layer.
You guys talk a lot about how do you operate an Internet scale across the universe?
We talk about how do you operate for all the different use cases in a healthcare system?
And that's become like a pretty tectonic shift that's happening, I think, in the healthcare technology universe.
And, you know, Cloudflare are one of our models is, you know, we're helping to build a better Internet.
How are you going to use Cloudflare at Luma as you guys continue to grow and scale to build your business?
Yeah. I mean, I think the analog is you guys are helping build a better Internet.
We're helping build a better healthcare delivery system.
I think for a lot of us, I was chewing on those words as I went through.
I think for us, really, the big part there is there's so much pushing to the edge, building better experiences.
You know, there's a lot that Cloudflare has specific around like workers, waiting room, custom SSL, all these different like, you know, auto provisioning, all this sort of stuff that exists.
Threat prevention, like there's so much that like, I think that we have, as we got deeper and deeper in the Cloudflare, we were using kind of the very standard above the water stuff that I think, you know, powers a big chunk of the Internet.
But then I think what we realized was the more that we go under the waterline and the iceberg, the more there is value to us, the less that we have to do, the more performant it can be for our end users.
And so really being able to provide those like really rich experiences to make healthcare better.
It's not just about like, do I show the right appointment at the right time?
Because many people can do that.
It's like, do I do it? And you know, sub 50 millisecond latency at the edge for a rural patient who's 65 and over and on a five-year-old Android phone from a low Internet connectivity spot in Montana, right?
Like being able to say, yes, I can do all those things.
That's when healthcare becomes very hard.
And that's when we're actually providing healthcare to all of Americans, not just Americans who have access to, you know, the one gigabit per second that I've got.
Yeah. That's great. And honestly, I've never even thought about like that major segmentation.
So we just have a couple of minutes left and I have two questions that I want to make sure we get to.
What advice do you have for other companies in similar situations?
So if you ever find yourself trying to schedule millions of vaccine appointments, you know, within a couple of weeks, call Keefe.
He will help you out. Advice number one, super duper all-star on our team is Keefe and he works at Cloudflare.
And so that's advice number one. Advice number two was slightly more practical is honestly like leverage platforms.
That's kind of the biggest piece.
And creative solutions thinking with kind of a systems approach, I think is the biggest piece that like we can take advantage of.
We are, we have the benefit of being like Kubernetes based microservices.
Like, you know, we have a lot of modern technology that's underneath us, but ultimately like we needed platforms to be able to build our platform that let us be very, very flexible.
And, you know, one of the things from, you know, six, seven years ago, when we signed the first Cloudflare agreement is actually having a long-term relationships with vendors you can trust and partners who become partners you can trust.
I think that becomes something essential for the moments that you don't expect to help you actually get through those moments.
So I think those very successful vendor relationships that become partners that, you know, you can build like long-term value out of.
I think those are the other parts that become incredibly valuable as you look to scale up a business.
That's great. Thank you for the shout out.
And I agree, Keefe is awesome. So last question, you became a new dad 13 weeks ago.
What is the best thing about fatherhood so far? You know, people joke, it's that I love the night feeds.
Like really? Yeah. I love the night feeds.
I mean, I'm awake at one o'clock, five o'clock, three, whatever it is. And, you know, those kind of quiet moments just with me and my daughter, that's something that like, I'd never, nothing had prepared me for that.
And that is something I'd never expected.
And it maybe is the most rewarding part of all this. That's awesome.
I did not expect that answer. So we are basically out of time, but I just want to say, thank you guys so much for joining me today.
Keefe and Aditya, you guys are doing great work and we're so excited to see what the future has to hold.
It's our pleasure. Thanks for having us here on Cloudflare TV.