Cloudflare TV

Home Office TV

Presented by Amy Bibeau, Boris Yanovsky
Originally aired on 

Join Amy as she provides you with a sneak peek into how the Cloudflare Team has been doing with the transition from daily office life to working from home. How is the team adapting to the shift? What do they miss and not miss about office life? What snacks are they eating? How has it been sharing a workspace with family or housemates? Tune in to find out!


Transcript (Beta)

Good morning. Welcome to Home Office TV. I'm Amy Bibeau and today my guest is Boris Yanovsky.

Welcome Boris. Hi, thanks Amy. How are you doing? This is the big question that we ask.

We start out with like, how's it going for you working from home in the midst of a global pandemic?

It's always a start. It's a good, it's a good baseline, I think.

Yeah, for everybody. Um, you know, I think it's, I think it's going well.

Um, you know, I think considering everything, yeah, it's been kind of, um, been doing this for how long now?

It seems like 10 years, but it's been since, uh, end of March, I guess.

Yeah. Is it, is it, I can't, I can't even count that.

I'm mathing. I'm doing math. 11 minus three. It's like a groundhog day. Um, every day's the same, but I think that being said, um, it's been, it's been going well.

I think like, you know, I'm kind of getting a good handle on, on the routine and I guess the expectations that, you know, we're working from home.

And then this is kind of like the, the normal for now, at least.

Um, so I think, yeah, I would say overall, like things are going pretty well.

And what is it that you do for our viewers?

What, what do you do at Cloudflare? So, um, I work on the people team, um, and I work, um, so people team is, um, is HR, um, some, some organizations called people team.

So that's what we're known as a Cloudflare. And I work in analytics on the people team.

So I kind of help, um, basically make sense of wrangle, analyze all of our, um, people and company data just to help us, um, you know, make better data-driven decisions, um, about our employees, um, about recruiting, um, hiring and things like that.

And are you the only one in your role?

So, uh, it's, so we have a team that, um, a smaller team within the people team called the systems and operations team.

Um, and we're kind of responsible for, uh, like a lot of the different data systems and the different, um, I guess like HR tools that we use and processes that, um, not only the HR team uses, but all of our employees use as well.

Um, so our team is responsible for that kind of work, but as far as the analytics and the data side of things goes, um, yeah, I'm actually like the only one, um, currently on that role.

Okay. So like, do you spend a lot of your day doing like meetings and calls, or is it a lot of like heads down, like you on the screen just with your computer?

Yeah, it's actually like a mix of both.

I mean, it really depends on the week. Um, I, it's sometimes like being heads down and, you know, working with data, um, and, you know, doing kind of like doing some coding and just trying not to be distracted, putting my headphones on.

Like that is sometimes a good chunk of my day. Um, just because like one sec, you're kind of in the zone working on that stuff.

Like it's, you know, you don't really want to be bothered because you just kind of track of where you are.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Um, so I think like my, my job probably has a healthy combination of the two, I would say.

Um, there are some days that are like very light on meetings and I might only have like a couple, um, there are other days where they're kind of like stacked back to back, like, you know, for like the first half or the second half of the day and you kind of get like a little bit of the zoom fatigue.

So it's, I think those days would make a little bit harder because it kind of requires like a little bit of code switching, um, because you have to jump between like meetings and then between like your task at hand.

And like you don't really have, like, maybe I'm kind of getting a little bit ahead of like, you know, how work at home is like, but like, I feel like one of the problems is like, I don't really have time to like transition from what I'm doing to a meeting because like when we were in the office, like I could just like go to a, go to the kitchen, get a snack or, you know, even just walk to the meeting room.

Even that is like enough time to like decompress and like, think about what's going on next.

Whereas now, like you get done with the task at like nine 30 and then the zoom meeting starts at nine 30 and you just have to be there like ready for it.

Yeah. I think switching gears like that, having transitions, like just in general, like the process of transitions has been like a topic that has come up a lot in this show.

Like how do people start their day?

How do they end their day? Like when, you know, do they actually take a real lunch?

You know, like how are they extracting like from work mode and like moving into like a different mode?

Um, how do you know when you're starting your day? Like, do you just like pick up your phone and start scrolling or do you have more of like a routine?

Yeah. Uh, I think that's, that seems very, very real. It's, it's close to home for sure.

Um, you know, I think like I haven't actually talked to too many people like on my team, like my coworkers about like how they start their day and like how they structure their day, which has actually got me thinking that I should probably get like a good sense of what they're doing too.

Like what the, you know, what the baseline is basically.

Um, but I mean, for me, it's definitely have come up with some routines of like, you know, the first couple of things that I usually do is like, you know, make coffee in the morning, for example.

Um, and then I used to actually listen to a podcast.

Um, I used to listen to Up First, which was like a 15 minute podcast that was like, just, you know, gives me a summary, a quick breakdown of the day and all the news.

Um, and that was kind of like my, my, um, I don't know, like my stimulus, my like sign that like the day is starting.

And then at that point I would just like, you know, open up my laptop and like get into emails and all that stuff.

But like, sometimes it's kind of hard to like, have that, um, official start because you just like wake up and check your phone or like you're at home and you can just like walk around, like, you know, making breakfast and looking at your phone.

So they're like, it's almost like your life does a little bit blend in, into work, um, before and after for sure.

Like it overlaps. The commuter, the commute was the buffer.

Like I know for you, you used to bike in a lot and that probably was nice.

Cause you get that like, okay, I'm on my way to work, listening to my podcast, riding my bike, getting some exercise, getting the blood flowing, show up at the office, make some breakfast, like ease into the day.

And now it's just kind of like blurry, you know, like the lines between like work and, and home and.

Yeah, definitely. It's kind of like a double edge sword in a way, because I do feel like it is a benefit, right?

Cause you save time from the commute. Um, but also I think, I think if you just, you know, I think I just need to be more disciplined about it maybe.

And like just more structured and just to have these clear lines between like when it starts and when it ends, that would make it a little bit better because then like before, you know, before working from my home, those lines were like set for me, like the commute was that line.

Now there really isn't one.

So I have to just accept that. So how do you end your day? Yeah. Um, I think actually that's honestly been like more challenging than starting it.

Um, because like starting it, like you just, you wake up and start working.


Yeah. It's not, not a big deal. Like that's fine. You don't even need a screen.

Just turn the video off. If it's, if it's too early, it's fine. You know, you're like, that's, that's pretty easy.

Yeah. Put your pajamas on, your sweatpants on, you're good to go.

Right. But ending the day. Ending has been hard. Yeah. It actually has been, um, I've gotten a little bit better about it.

Um, definitely have gotten where I'm like more aware that it's, you know, four o'clock, five o 'clock, whatever.

And like, it's time to wrap things up. Um, but I think, you know, like it took some time because my kind of mentality at first was just to, um, you know, get, I was like, Oh, I can get things done later because I'm working at home anyways.

And I have my laptop with me. So, um, maybe if I just like, you know, put this thing on hold for now, I'll get this done like later at eight o'clock tonight, but it's not really sustainable.

Um, not, not smart to do that. So I've, uh, definitely gotten better being like self-aware of, um, you know, being four or five.

And, and like, I think one thing that I do is like, that helps me at least is that I kind of like plan for something, um, after work, whether it's just grocery shopping or making dinner, or even like watching a TV show or going for like a walk or run, like that is a good motivator for me to stop.

Um, because otherwise it's just like, it's like, you know, you keep doing what you're doing and you forget that it's like, after, after normal work hours, because like in the office, you know, you see people leaving around a certain time and then you're that's, that's a cue for you.

That's like a sign for you to start wrapping things up and going.

Yeah. Um, so I think it's just like, it, it just takes time. Like, you know, it's a new normal for us.

Um, and just like with everything in life, you know, change can be hard and.

Sure. I mean, it's hard to change. It's like suddenly there was an external structure that we were following.

And then like, you have to create your own structure, you know?

Um, I know for me at first, I was just like, what's going on?

Like how I'm a front desk coordinator. I don't have a desk anymore.

Like my job is, you know, like how is it changing and transform, you know, like my job has transformed a bit, you know, since then I was like, do I still have a job?

Am I going to still have a job? Like how long is this going to go on?

Cause of course at first we're just like, this isn't going to really go on. And, and then it just started becoming weird.

Like, cause I live alone. And so I was just like at home all the time alone, like not wanting to go out, not going out at all.

Like not, and I'm an extrovert not having any like, you know, human contact. And that was weird.

And then it, then it was like, I didn't want to see people. I didn't want to go out.

I didn't want to go to the office. Like I went through this weird stage and I was like, okay, Amy, like, so I started doing like a morning singing practice with some friends back home in Minnesota where we would like sing, um, like prayers to Shiva for like an hour in the morning.

And that was like a really turning point for me with like my like mental health and happiness during this pandemic.

Cause it was like, okay, I have one thing that I'm starting my day with, you know, and then sometimes I'll like, I'll be late to doing that because I'm scrolling on Facebook, like arguing with people about politics, you know, it's just like Amy, like, Oh no, show up on time to do like your prayers and like argue with the people on Facebook later.

Like I don't have a ton of self-control. That's actually a lot of self-control.

Yeah. I don't have a lot of self-control. Um, you know, which brings me to my eternal struggle.

Um, you know, like of like eating meat or not.

So Boris is, is one of our vegan colleagues. So he's always my inspiration to like be a better person.

Um, how's it like, what do you miss the most about the office?

Do you miss like the snacks? Are you like happy, like cooking from home or like, how's, how's your, like, how's like your like dietary situation going?

Like, is it harder? Is it easier? Are you eating more pasta?

Uh, well, I'm, I'm glad that, um, my, uh, my diet and veganism aspiring to be a better person.

That's very, it's very lofty, but it's not, it's not working. It's quite, quite the ambitious goal, but that's good.

Um, so I like, yes, I mean, I definitely miss the snacks in the office.

Like who does it? Like, it was just so nice to go down.

I, I, so like my favorites were the little fig bars down there.

Yeah. The ones that were like cut in two. Um, we actually just bought a box yesterday because I saw them and I was like, I need to have, I need to get them.


They're, they're addicting. Um, so I, I think I'd go through like three or four a day when I was in the office because they're just amazing.

So I definitely, I miss that, but, um, I've, um, I've adjusted, of course, you know, as, as all are, as all creatures have had to do.

Um, and I've, uh, started cooking more at home for sure.

Um, I, there's a couple of things that I've been like, um, kind of like more focused on cooking is, uh, one is of course I got into the sourdough bread thing, um, as I think everybody else did.

Um, yeah, I, so I got into it a little bit late after, um, maybe like in June or July, I think after the whole like flour shortage of 2020 ended.

Yeah. Those, uh, those are dark times. I'm like in May, April and the toilet paper shortage of 2020.

I know. Yeah. Flour, toilet paper and, uh, paper towels, I think are out too.

Yeah. Um, so yeah, so it's, it's actually a lot easier to, I mean, like what, as, as it was before there's flowers available everywhere now, so you can get it.

So yeah, I started getting into the sourdough baking and make my own, um, starter and actually I'm, uh, feeding, I just started yesterday just to, uh, revive it again, just so I can make a couple more loaves this weekend.

With sugar or what do you put in it to feed it? Um, no, it's actually, so it's pretty simple.

It just takes a lot of time, just a lot of waiting basically.

So you just mix it and forget it. Um, but the really ingredients are just flour and water.

Um, that's all you do. That's what you start with.

So you have to get a special flour, um, start with, I think it's like, I think rice flour works pretty well.

Um, brown rice flour works well to start and then you just mix it with water and it, what it, what it does is I'm probably explaining this incorrectly.

I'm sure there's somebody that knows more about like the, you know, the biology behind it, but it actually like eats or consumes the yeast, the wild yeast that are in the air.

Um, and they get mixed in with the flour and with the water, and then they eat the sugars that are in, um, in the mixture.

And that becomes like an active yeast.

So that's, that's why it bubbles up. Um, and then you use that as your like natural active yeast.

Um, so instead of buying like the yeast packets.

Okay. How do you feed it? What are you feeding it with when you feed it?

So it's, so you, you end up feeding it more flour and water. Um, yeah, because those, um, that like that bacteria, that yeast, um, it ends up eating the flour and water.

So you have to beat it more. Yep. So what you do is like, you discard a portion of it and then you feed it more fresh food.

Um, and then it gets, it gets active again.

So, yeah, so that's, that's one thing I've been making. And then the other thing is, um, part of my routine actually, which is, I don't do this every day, maybe a couple of times a week, but, um, I've been making breakfast sandwiches and yeah, I've, uh, like, I've just, it sounds so like simple, but like, I've just, I've always loved, like, I like bread anyways, but like I've always loved sandwiches.

Like whether it's like burgers. Um, so it's sometimes it's kind of hard to replicate, um, you know, vegan burgers and vegan sandwiches.

Yeah. So what do you put on your vegan breakfast sandwich?

Creative. Yeah. So, um, have you ever heard of just egg?

No. Is it like fake egg? It's fake egg. Yeah. So there was this food company called, uh, just foods.

And they're, so they're the ones that, I don't know if you remember this long time ago, they made, um, they were one of the first ones to make vegan Mayo.

Okay. And they, they labeled it Mayo and it's called just Mayo.

And I think, um, egg producers, um, sued them because they said that it wasn't mayonnaise and people were like buying it off the shelves and thinking that it was mayonnaise.

And it's actually, I mean, I know I'm biased, but I think it tastes better than mayonnaise.

Um, and, uh, they, I think they ended up like winning the lawsuit so they can still call it Mayo, but like they got sued for calling their mayonnaise Mayo because it's not really made doesn't have eggs in it.

Um, yeah, I know.

Ridiculous. So anyway, it's a litigious society. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's another rabbit hole.

So, okay. So what else? So, yeah, so, so they have this thing called just egg.

It's like, um, it's, uh, like a liquid egg, um, same as you'd buy, like, you know, liquid egg whites, basically it's the same thing.

Um, and then I use that to make kind of like a scramble sort of for the sandwich.

Um, and then I also use this, um, vegan substitute cheese.

It's called, there's actually, there's a bunch of cheeses out there now.

Like if you, like, if you'd have asked me five years ago, like what the vegan, like food scene would look like now, like it's crazy.

There's so many like good options and so many substitutes and alternatives now.

Um, so you can even find like any slice of eating cheese and that'll do.

Um, and then I make, so I also make, um, like a little kind of bacon sort of, um, plate replacer.

And basically it's like, you can buy like fake bacon, of course you can buy like tempeh and that stuff.

But, um, I like to get tofu, slice it pretty thin and then get liquid smoke.

Um, and as I fried up in a pan, you just kind of douse it in liquid smoke a little bit and it gets like really smoky kind of bacon-y.

Yeah. And then you can put like whatever toppings you want, like, you know, avocado, tomato, um, and then, you know, mustard, mayo, whatever other, whatever other topping you want on there.

And then the bread is the crucial part actually.

Yeah, of course it has to be right bread. Um, it has to be, can't be too firm because otherwise like the sandwich just slides out and then just gets all like crunchy on the top and just like a mess.

Exactly. Yeah. A Dutch crunch would be perfect.

Um, you know, crunchy on top, soft in the middle. Yep, exactly. Yeah.

So you gotta find the perfect bread and then just toast it slightly on both sides.

Um, and you have yourself a nice breakfast sandwich. Yum. I was thinking about doing like oatmeal for breakfast.

I bought all this oatmeal, like, so at the beginning of the pandemic, right, I was like, I bought like all these like staples, you know, like I have like two or three bags of oatmeal that I haven't even opened since like the pandemic started.

It's just like, it's still, it's just still there for like, in case like, you know what I mean?

It gets worse and the supply chain like is cut off doing like oatmeal breakfast with like dried mangoes and like, cause I'm like, what can I eat?

I don't eat a ton of, but sometimes I'll do like eggs and I'm just trying to steer away from like the animal friends there.

I, um, you know, like I think as humans, we're so much creatures of habit.

We're so much creatures of this external thing that society has created for us to be.

We've been created to become consumers.

Like how much thought do we put into each of our choices?

Is it an automatic choice that's coming from programming? Is it something that like my actual living awareness and consciousness is choosing in this moment.

And I, I just know that I, I still operate a lot from, you know, habitual patterns that have been programmed into me versus like, you know, liberated choices that my consciousness is making in the now.

And so that's kind of my journey when it comes to like releasing like the, you know, reliance on animal friends as, um, you know what I mean?

As a food source, you know, it's very, it's very much in everybody's face.

And if it's something that, you know, it'd be one thing if I'm like, I don't like meat.

Yeah, exactly. And then it's easy to do that. Right. But I'm not that girl, you know, I'm from Minnesota where we grew up in a different way.

I really like, um, the vegetarian, like, the vegan sausages, like now Morningstar finally started making their vegan.

So I like those little, like they do a pretty good job on the vegan.

They do actually. Yeah. I think it's pretty good replacement meat.

I really liked the impossible burger that you can buy ground now.

Yep. I've seen that. I actually had impossible bird, a possible, uh, Whopper on a Sunday.

Yeah. Great. You know, it's pretty good. Yeah. It's nice that it exists, you know, because obviously we don't want to give brutality King a lot of our dollars just in general.

Um, I use, I use the, um, imperfect produce. I don't know if you, have you done that?

I've heard of it. I haven't used it. It's so great.

I'm telling you. And they do, they have the impossible ground, whatever, whatever.

So, so like spaghetti, you buy like the pound and you, you know, you Brown it up and it's like so good in spaghetti.

It's really good. Just like, it's like a meat sauce, like with some red sauce.

Yeah. Nice. Good. So I'm glad, I'm glad that you've been, uh, making these conscious decisions.

I do what I can. I do what I can.

So back to your working from home now, you also are recently cohabitating like the pandemic landed and then so did your partner into your one bedroom apartment.

Yes. Yeah. It was, uh, it all happened, um, really like right at the same time.

Um, yeah. So, um, so she moved from, so Jenny moved in from New York actually, um, in, in March.

So, you know, we've been talking about, you know, we had a long distance relationship for a while, for about a year or so.

And I'm talking about, you know, who are moving out here and then we're going to kind of take our time and like plan and find an apartment and, you know, kind of like figure out where we're going to live, like exactly what's going to happen.

And this was like around like January, February.

And then, you know, you know, what happened after that?

Um, like, yeah, middle of March, everything went into, uh, quarantine lockdown mode basically.

And, um, you know, our plans were still for her to move out here and she was living in New York at the time.

And, um, New York was just getting just, just hit really hard with the Corona virus.

Um, and you know, obviously being scared, like for her safety as well and not getting sick, but also trying to, you know, have her come out here where it was relatively better.

Um, we wanted to just expedite and do it as fast as possible.

Um, so the move ended up happening, I think like within a week, basically if that, yeah.

So she, you know, she was able to find a ticket pretty fast.

Um, and I think like within like three or four days of flying out here.

Um, and then I think like the day that she flew out, um, I think they were, New York was imposing a travel restriction, um, either in or out or both.

I forget what it was. I mean, it was, it was a mess. Like it was, it was terrifying just because, you know, that time we just, we had no idea what's going on.

Um, I mean, looking back at it now, it was like, you know, we've been living this for eight months now.

It's still scary. But at that time, like we were like, maybe like in two weeks, it will be better.

Maybe, maybe in a month we'll be back at work.

Like who, who knew? Yeah. Um, so yeah, so she came out here, it was, it was very stressful.

It was stressful for her. Um, but she was a trooper about it.

Um, you know, I know it's probably not a, definitely not an easy thing to do, especially in the middle of freaking pandemic.

What about all of her stuff?

Did she go home and get like, cause I mean, she, this was like a fast move.

So yeah, I know. Yeah. This was, this was like, this was the other contributing like thing to the stress too, is like packing stuff.

Um, you know, she packed within like a day or two, all the small things that she could bring with her, uh, besides furniture.

So everything that she could bring on the plane that she like all the personal belongings and everything, um, including the cat, um, you know, the cat, cat, cat went in a bag and, um, into, into luggage, not luggage, but it carried on.

Yeah, exactly. There was some drugs with the cat. Got a little cat, a cat value or a cat Xanax and, uh, calm it down a little bit.

Um, but the furniture.

So I think like half the furniture she ended up, um, selling or giving away to friends.

And then the other half, um, she actually got shipped here. So she was able to get a shipping company.

You know, they were still working on the time.

Um, luckily there were a great company that was like really reliable and responsive.

Um, and I think the other thing that really helped is, uh, you know, she has some good friends in New York or has some good friends in New York that were able to help her, um, come, you know, basically come to her apartment and like, essentially just like ransacking and take stuff away, which is great.

Like, that's what she wanted.

She was like, just, you know, if you want any of this stuff that I've left, like couch TV, some kitchen appliances, you know, they're all yours.

So they're able to help out with that.

A lot of trust on her part. You know what I mean?

Like to just be like, or this is my dude. And I'm how did you guys meet if she was in New York and you're in San Francisco?

Yeah. Um, it was through mutual friend.

Um, she was out here visiting, uh, visiting our friend. Um, and we all just went out together.

Um, and yeah, just met at one night randomly, um, IRL in person. Nice.

And then started up a thing. And then, I mean, yeah, that's a lot of trust to just be like, Hey, I'm giving up my apartment.

I'm giving up my belongings and I'm, I'm taking my cat in a bag with some drugs and jumping on a plane and like, going to go live with my man in the, in the, in the middle of a global pandemic.

And, and so her company is cool with her, like working remotely.

Like, do they have an office here or.

They do actually. So, um, the plan was for her to, um, trees transferred to the office here.

Cause they have an office in SF as well. And, you know, they were all, they were fine with that.

Um, but you know, now it's the same as same thing we're doing.

Yeah. Just working remotely. Um, and then having these, these zoom calls that we're having.

So it's, you know, we're, we're, we're kind of in the same world right now, uh, sharing, uh, sharing an office and the offices, the living room.

I guess you could go into the bedroom or whatever, if you have to get away to like be on calls at the same time or.

Yeah, we can. Yeah. So yeah, we can get away in the bedroom, but like we have, um, you know, two desks set up in the living room.

Um, and we kind of just like take turns on the desk, basically, um, just swap around, but that was, I would say that was the big game changer actually for working from home is having a, getting a dedicated desk for the first like three months.

I thought that I could get away with just sitting on a couch or sitting on like a dining room table with my laptop.

Oh, it was, it was terrible.

I don't know how I did it. Like for, I think maybe it wasn't four months. It probably was like two, three months, especially when you're looking at all that data and you really need to monitor, like, I don't look at that much data.

So I'm still in, like, I'm still in like couch pillow, ergo desk mode where I like sit on my couch, like with a lot of pillows and I put pillows under my knees and I put my laptop on a pillow and like, it's a pillow based system.

I mean, that's nice too though.

What's that? That's nice too, but you just can't do it for too long. You have to, you have to change positions around.

Yeah. I work a lot with the people and their ergo requests, you know, so like when people need stuff, cause Cloudflare does, you know, like actually help people out with that kind of stuff, but you probably already like did your thing before you.

I did, but actually I need to reach out to the team and yeah.

Cause I never emailed, I never emailed you about it.

All I did was I just went in the office and took my monitor and my keyboard and mouse.

And I think that's it. I didn't take a desk. I'm sorry. I didn't take a chair.

But yeah, I think like maybe let's chat separately. Cause maybe there's something that I could, that could also get, that could be more.

Yeah. I mean, if this chair is working for you, we have chairs at the office that we're letting people take home, like the office chairs.

Yeah. But yeah, definitely. Like you know, you can look at, we have the wiki for the work from home.

So there's like a whole thing I can, I'll ping you that link just so you can kind of see more stuff.

Cause that's been a lot of my job since like, just like trying to help people get what they need.

And now we're kind of doing like the limited opening where we opened up 634 for people who really like need it.

And we have a couple of people going into San Jose.

I'm actually, when I jump off this call, I'm going to drive down to the San Jose office.

I like that. I still get to go into the offices a little bit. Like I, at first, like I said, when I went through that point where I'm like, I don't want to see anybody, I was like, I don't want to go to the office.

I don't want to, I don't want to leave my house, but that was weird.

I didn't like that. Cause you're very social too.

Like how that must've been hard for you. Yeah. You know what I miss?

The flowers. Yeah. Remember that? That was fun. They were pretty, like it was my job.

I got to make flower arrangements. Like I would make like 25 flower arrangements every week.

That was the best part of my job. So, so you've been doing breakfast sandwiches and sourdough.

Any other new thing? We got about a minute and a half.

Is there any other new thing or any highlight or do you have any optimism for the future?

Um, I mean, I think, you know, I'm generally optimistic, I think.

So I think I'm, you know, I don't think that there's like, you know, people are saying like, Oh, maybe 2021 will be better.

Um, you know, I think the year is just arbitrary.

So, you know, it doesn't matter. Coronavirus doesn't know that it, that December 31st, we started a new year and we're going to take a shot and forget about it, which is like a meme I saw.

I'm like, yeah, we'll take a shot.

We'll never speak of this year again. I'm like, this year is going to continue on.

It's not. Yeah. It's like what, like December 31st comes in January. It goes in January 1st comes and all of a sudden it's better.

No, that's not how it's going to work.

But I think generally like I, you know, things will trend in a better direction.

I'm optimistic. Although, you know, currently, currently the numbers aren't great coronavirus, but I think, um, new leadership in the executive branch will help us.

Excited about that. Definitely excited to move forward and then have that history behind us.

Um, so I think that's, I'll take a shot on January 20th and put that behind me.

Yeah, that's, that's not arbitrary. That's actually, that's actually a date, right?

Well, thank you so, so much. It was really good to see you.

This is like the one hour or the half hour of the week where I feel like I have a friend.

So, you know, thank you for being my friend this week.

No, this was nice. Thanks for inviting me. This was a fun and casual chat.

Yeah. Super, super fun. Take, take care of yourself, Boris. Thanks. You too, Amy.

See ya.