Episode 5: Code Generation: Building as a Token and Git Maximalist

charlie holtz welcome to friends and code spaces thank you so much for coming on the show today you have no idea what we're about up to do right now do you that is true i have no idea what is about to happen but yeah thank you for having me do you understand the pun friends and code spaces no or is it dated so there's the old Garth Brooks song. I got friends. And I was going to ask you to sing that, but since you don't, you don't have it in there, so we don't need to do it. I don't. Yeah. I got to get out of jail free for that one. So, uh, what this show is, we bring people in that, uh, we meet in real life and I love seeing the stuff that you do, uh, in real life, your demos are some of the best that are out there. So I'm going to start gushing first, uh, before we even started here, I love your demos. I love the way that you, you. share and you inspire out there. And you have done incredible work. I've seen audiences where they're laughing, they're gasping. You're just like super talented at that. You have a code space. Codespace is probably AI, but you've got a new code space that you're in these days. What is your code space? What would you say your code space is? First of all, thank you. I have a lot of fun making those demos. And it's really funny to me, people's reactions, because I never know when it's going to work. because i have a lot of demos that no one pays any attention to and it's me spending like hours recording like i if you watch like but the behind the scenes of me recording this it's just it's like me doing like pressing enter something doesn't quite work i'm like crap go again it takes me a while and then most of the time like they go nowhere and it's just kind of like a video on the internet that like disappears but then once in a while there is uh david adenberg clones uh narrates your life and the clone goes completely viral and sir david sees it and um actually as a side note he didn't he doesn't love it oh okay he didn't love he didn't have the best reaction which is sad because i am a huge fan of him but oh no uh yeah that's a story for another time not a friend not a friend in your space yeah yeah um but to answer your question of what is your code space now so a code space is just like i would say uh and tell me if this is the right like yeah i mean to focus on but i've been hanging out in uh i call it okay call it the maximalist token world so we were with melty we're all about just throwing as many tokens at problems as you possibly can okay and so that's one that's like one thing that's occupies my brain okay i'm also become a git maximalist okay kind of accidentally all right um and that one thing that i've discovered i don't like to use git like git is like a means to an end but my co-founder uh is the type who if you get into like a git hole every action that i make will take me further into the hole every action that he makes like gets us closer to a problem being solved it saves the day exactly and so i've become a git maximalist in in that every i think if you're coding with ai and you're you have a lot of tokens streaming in and you are full on full on on git then it's a very nice symbiotic relationship if you track the chat like you track code changes you can like time travel through the And the chat stays in sync with the code and I can go on and on about how these things work together. But that's that's been occupying my mind. Also, your code space. I would definitely say that code generation is where where you're hanging out in recently, which is a it's just huge. Like it's been very, very big lately, like almost every day there's a new a new thing going on over there. Yeah. And so you are you're a founder of this new Melty, which we are going to definitely talk about more because we are. ready to enter our first game charlie okay the first game of the day is called context window okay so context window you as you know llms have a a certain amount of they've scanned tokens they've scanned a bunch of a scanned a bunch of the internet yeah and i asked the internet i asked llama 3.2 okay i asked llama 3.2 uh parameters that one have uh i think this is the 8b model oh no 11b okay we're not going through the smartest yet not the smartest okay so let's be let's be fair just wanted to yeah yeah so this is where and i asked it i am gonna have a podcast okay and i'm speaking with charlie holtz the founder of melty and i have dot sh but you're just calling it melty yeah do we are we gonna drop the dot sh that's the domain that's the domain we're just gonna call it melty yeah okay okay so we're charlie holtz the founder of melty you have the opportunity to learn everything you can about charlie that you don't know already and as an ai and i asked to be very self-aware which I know you love playing in this space. So I said, you're a self-aware AI. What do you know about him? And of course, you know, it came back. The last crawl doesn't know much about you, which is, it didn't do a very good job. Yeah, yeah, not yet. It's working on it. So I gave it a little help. So I said, Charlie started the Hacker in Residency program over at Replicate, which is where we saw those demos at, where he made inspiring AI demos, which is totally 100% true. Melty is currently in YC, right? And is an AI code generation tool that makes use of Git. commits as we talked about and tracks changes. So now I said, what would you like to know about Charlie? And now you get to you, you're, you're in control here. So these are, these are, there are categories in the loop. Yeah. Yeah. If you could, if you exactly, you are the human in this loop. And if you could read the categories out loud, cause this is also one thing that I didn't say at the start of this is not only there's cameras all around us, but we're also talking to people at home who might be listening. Okay. Audio only. So if you could read the read. Yes. So the chosen questions are AI code generation. As a topic. So there's a question buried under there. AI and software development. It's similar, but yeah, a little different. Human computer interaction. Because the AI might want to know more about how this human thing works. And importantly, that one has a period, which the other ones don't. So that one is more serious. Then product development. And. And then a Y Combinator. So where do you want to take this? Where would you like to go first? I'm intrigued by human computer. I feel like I might learn something. And, you know, to do this right, I think, you know, we're still in beta here, but I'm just going to grab this first one here. I'm going to pop it into this here. Got a lot of stuff going on over here, Charlie. We're going to read this to you out loud from an AI. I'm intrigued by the concept of embodied cognition. where AI systems are designed to work alongside humans in physical spaces. Can you share any experiences or projects you've worked on that involve developing embodied AI systems for human-computer interaction? Great question. Who asked me that? Is that Chris or Lama? That was Chris from Eleven Labs, a trained voice actor, I'm assuming. So the question was, I'm intrigued by the concept of embodied cognition. I'm intrigued by this too. something i'm actually working on right now that that i think embodies this uh is so there's this thing at yc headquarters when you walk in it recognizes your face and like a little thing comes up that's like hi charlie and i am making that for my apartment oh nice and so the way it works is it's i have a raspberry pi okay it has a little camera that's attached and i have a uh a model that is open source it's this awesome framework called i think it's like face-api.js okay which i found because claude sonnet 3.5 told me about it nice and so it's running on this raspberry pi connected to the camera and it has a microphone and so every time i come home it says hello charlie um and but what also is cool is i put in uh like my girlfriend's face my roommate's face i need to start adding So they're like when they come, they can be greeted. And so not only do I have like a lot, it's sort of like having a doorman, but I have like this live doorman. Um, but I also have a log of everyone who's come to the apartment and I don't know if I'm ever going to use that, but I was like, this is a nice, a nice side effect. It seems like you've only been here twice this quarter. Exactly. Yeah. It's like in office every day because our apartment is the office. Oh, it is. Oh, you're running melty out of the apartment. Exactly. Okay. Awesome. The other thing that is, I have a 3d printer. two weeks ago. Thank you. And so I have, I need to make a case for this doorman. Um, and now I have all these other ideas of ways I, I like, I want to use these models and like 3d print cases for them. So rad. Yeah. I also think like this idea of like embodied cognition becomes so much cooler with local models. Like the one asking me this question. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Run it, running that stuff locally where you'd know, no, not worrying about the network or anything or where to host it or anything. Oh yeah. Run it as much as you want. Yeah, totally. And I don't, don't need to go too far into this tangent, but like powerful computers are back in a way that like when I bought my 2021 M1 laptop, I purposely got the lowest specs on everything. And the reason for that is because I can use pretty much any app that I use every day in the browser. So I can use Slack, I could use Figma. I could, if I wanted to use like VS Code browser app. At the time, there's this startup called Mighty, which was like Chrome running. on a gpu somewhere yeah i don't know if you remember that yeah yeah anyway i was like everything's moving in the cloud like it's kind of getting a beefed up computer is kind of like is over we're like back to dumb terminals exactly yeah exactly it's like this is really a thin client for all the stuff that happens on the cloud but that has kind of it's true that the best language models are running on anthropic or open ai's cloud but having a beefed up computer is kind of back now because i can run llama 70b really fast on my computer with no internet and that is pretty magical and as a token maximalist yeah right that that exactly yeah right what happens if you have llama running all the time on your extra gpus like there's some cool things awesome awesome so i i don't i probably don't need to ask this question but when you built your doorman yeah what did you use to build it great question uh obviously uh melty it was an important part um But I'm using Cursor a lot as well. The current edition of Melty is you could think of as a companion to code editors. We started out, it was a VS Code extension. And then we were like, two weeks in, we were like, okay, there's some interesting ideas that are happening. Let's do what everyone's doing. Let's fork VS Code. Except at the time, not just Cursor was doing that. But then what made that version of Melty cool was that when you, it was plain VS Code, but when you open Melty. took over the whole screen and it was like very immersive and you couldn't even see the code when you're in melty mode i thought of it like we talked about it as like sometimes you're in developer mode and sometimes you're in like uh engineering manager mode right and when you're in engineering manager mode you actually don't need to see like the code is a small subset of what you're thinking about you're thinking about architecture and design and things like that so anyway the coolest part about melty was it took over your screen and we were like let's just go all in on it being a standalone thing like when you're in engineering manager mode you're not in like developer mode and so now melty is a standalone app that like you have alongside your code editor awesome have you have you been in the role of engineering manager before no but now this is just what i meant yeah no no no but i mean that's rad that that's totally that's a cool way to think of it i haven't thought about in fact oh yeah how do you how you design uh the the interfaces right so so you're you're you're working with melty there how are the engineering manager is going to have some some vibes if you will about what's going on it's like how do you how do you deal with that emotional how they're how they're responding to as a token maximalist yeah we're throwing a ton of tokens at the problem okay uh one thing we're experimenting with right now that i think is interesting yeah is what we call eager responses people are used to chat apps where you press enter and you get like a response uh with melty as you're typing it is sending off requests to different models and sometimes the same models with different prompts gotcha so for example there's every time you say anything the default right now is what we call the meta prompter okay which is it takes what you said and then asks sonnet 3.5 is there anything else you need to know to make this prompt better but at the same time the meta prompter is running there's a model that's like can you summarize this whole chat and make it really and give responses really brief there's also one that can do code editing for you long short like this idea of like an eager response is as you're typing it is sending requests to many different models all at once so like when you press enter you it's already done and you have a bunch of options that you can go through but also requires a lot more tokens um and so part of the bet is like uh like tokens become cheaper and even if this is expensive more expensive to run it's worth it because of that magic yeah awesome yeah so all those tokens you i have a bunch of tokens that are sitting here on the screen that were questions but you did an excellent job of answering inside of this and i'm going to get to a couple more things in here because i want to know a little bit more because i want to know in this next game we're going to go um a little bit back in history have you seen this show hot ones oh yeah where they have a hot time yeah yeah so we're doing a thing called cold ones okay okay so lizzie it's lizzie here lizzie can we have the cold ones have you had one of these recently thank you so much lizzie you get a choice wow blue or yellow um yellow yellow all right all right so this is a have you had one of these no no what is this this is a slurpee okay how long have you have you ever had a slurpee i i'm not sure it's been a while let's do this let's cheers take a sip see if it takes you back wow that is exceptionally sweet okay what flavor is it you think just yellow mango something yellow yeah okay did that bring you back that like i haven't had that much sugar in a yeah i like to i don't think that's sugar that is like high fructose corn syrup i'm not sure that is yeah that's sugar so into a time when that was legal and you like wanted that in your life did you did you have a like early candy stuff as a kid yes but i lived in london until i was seven oh so a lot of the american things like slurpee and i don't think i had I don't think I knew about that. What was the super candy of, like, you always wanted? Carribeau is always just like, I like the little Coke ones. Oh, so good. The Coke bottles, so good. There's also, you know, After Eights. It's like a chocolate with mint in the inside. There's like, there's an American equivalent, but the British one's better. Yeah, I can go on. Okay, awesome, awesome. So let's go back. We're back in this nostalgic moment. You are. prolific now back in the day were you always a builder that was so prolific like what did you start first start building uh my grandpa yeah and my dad are patent attorneys okay so they're not necessarily building but they're like interacting with builders okay and my grandpa's license plate is invent whoa so i remember growing up i was always like drawing inventions okay um so i don't know like all kinds of contraptions like like what one thing i used to love drawing is like like plain like a plain cross-section okay so like you know the have you ever seen that book um what's that book called it's like how everything how everything works okay yeah yeah yeah and it's basically just like cross-sections of like like rockets and planes and computers and whatever and so i would try and like draw those and i don't know i just like like an internal combustion engine like what's a cross-section of that look like and so I spent a lot of time doing that, but it, and it wasn't, I didn't really discover programming until honestly, like late college. Okay. Whoa. Um, all right. And I, the first, I've really started by, I moved in an apartment with my friends in hell's kitchen in New York and I wanted an apartment website. And, um, what year is this? What are we talking? This was 2018, 2018. So what is a, what does an apartment website look like in 2018? It's welcome to the reef. com uh i think it's still up our apartment is called the reef the reef okay and uh and this is like for the landlord no or just for your this was just like we're hanging out yeah like i don't know like like drinking cold ones let's have another sip let's say oh gosh i i want to wear like um a glucose monitor and drive those i'm just like watch it immediately spike um so yeah it was yeah it was actually completely for fun i was gonna say mostly fun and there's no utility okay it's it's completely for fun produce speeder what can you it's the the uh i think it's welcome to the reef welcome to the reef.com but make sure it's the oh yeah that's it yeah oh that is so that's me at the bottom i had to learn some css yeah there's my other roommates and yeah you can you can click yeah you can click that that feels a little bit like flash a little bit yeah it plays music yeah yeah so you're always into this yeah always into this world of like we do upcoming events all right so this is probably 2018 20 events we had okay nice yeah oh that was expired red stripe party oh we had a lot of expired red stripe yeah yeah yeah another cool one yeah awesome uh cool so uh that was the first and you were like wait a second what look at what i can do yeah that felt very magical um because i had done a couple computer science classes in college And it wasn't about building things. It was about learning. This is what a class is. This is object-oriented programming. This is how a heap works. But for me, now I actually find some of that stuff interesting. But the thing that's really cool is just building stuff. Making some, kind of crafting something from your mind into reality in almost real time. And I, like... I think I could have the same thing with like carpentry or like, I don't know, building anything. But there's something about software that is such a high or such a quick feedback loop that is addicting in a totally different way. And I can tell that you were addicted. Like we talked about the amount of demos that you produce and some that work and don't work. But like, I swear every day there was one coming out. And now I actually don't know how to think about this. I've actually. i have so many ideas that i've been sort of on the back burner um and i i think i need to start getting into the habit of i've just been so in the weeds and melty and like and i think there's a trap that is easy to fall into and in some ways i have fallen into is like okay we're doing a startup it has to be serious and like yeah you can't just be like messing around all the time and there is a balance like i think because i think creating those ideas is what generates more ideas and like and it's just really fun yeah and that's sort of why that's why i wanted to start a company anyway just to like spend time doing what i want to do what you want to be doing yeah awesome awesome well um we uh producer peter you know you know producer peter yeah uh he's really good at digging okay uh so we're back we're in the past and we want to talk about uh your ex okay uh your your twitter right okay that's what i'm nice okay this is charlie on twitter it's at charlie holtz also in the notes of this for those of you charlie b holtz charlie b it's a subtle b it's a subtle i do at charlie holtz is my high school account and i can't get back in oh man what the password was totally the reef or something i tried every iteration of yeah so we've we found some some uh some things that you shared on social uh that we just thought that we would talk about here um so these are your demos right there's some demos saying that there's some that aren't here. Um, if you thought about demos that you shared and you already talked about the Attenborough one, so let's look, these are just some, some to, to what's some that you pushed out there that didn't land. You said earlier that you had, you had some that went kind of went viral and then some that didn't land that you wanted to land. What's that demo that we can bring people back to? There's one that it ended up kind of landing, but I still think is way cooler than the attention I got. Oh, that was you. tune you tune okay yeah so yeah you're not familiar i don't know i missed it your tune was the way it works you paste in a youtube url okay it's a command line tool okay it's in a youtube url it downloads the video goes through each frame and removes the ones that are noisy or blurry or that have a bunch of text and like picks like the 20 best frames and then it fine tune stable diffusion uh on that whoa on those clips so it's like you take it go from youtube video to like a fine-tuned image model so like i don't know in the demo i i think it was the spongebob movie trailer and i just take the youtube link paste it in and now i have like a spongebob image fine too oh man that is cool i also thought it was a great name yeah uh wow i wonder why that didn't land yeah maybe it's too good it might be too it's too good i'm not ready back yeah yeah i think so i'm gonna go find it and retweet it and be like i miss this somehow yeah it's a good one yeah is it oh yeah yeah yeah awesome epic like we've talked already about these about some of these demos uh but we talked about then we talked about starting a company and you actually kind of walked into this one already you were enjoying building you're like i want to go i want to go build a company here and it says to make yourself a 10x engineer which i think is a little play right do you think people are really becoming 10x engineers now yeah the the way i i don't know if i've if i've heard this or this is like a false memory, but it's like 1x engineers are becoming 5x and the 10x are becoming 100x. And I really liked that like framing because I'm not even sure that equation is quite right. Like in some ways you could argue that the floor has been raised more than the ceiling in that people who don't know much about coding can now get into it really easily more than the best engineers become magnified. I think it's debatable. Yeah. But either way, like Sonnet 3.5, like really had changed things. Like I remember showing friends like, look what I can do with a GPT DaVinci 002. And like that was pretty mind blowing. But Sonnet 3.5 really feels like a breakthrough. Yeah, for sure. And you did this with your buddy. So, so, so how is that? Are you still friends? still friends um uh we yeah jackson and i played ultimate frisbee together okay at in college um at brown who uh shout out 2024 national champion oh really of ultimate frisbee yeah ultimate frisbee exactly yeah and so i think actually um i think being teammates like literal teammates on a sports team yeah is a great place to start because you deal with a lot of external factors you can't control you deal with like high stress like both physically and mentally yeah uh you deal with like um just like being kind of forced to work hard together right you have uh with a startup you don't really have a coach but like you do sort of you i don't know you have investors or you have users like you have yc right exactly and so i think that was a great way it's a great way to like meet someone and get like a a sort of lab experiment of like what would co-founding a company be like that's interesting yeah is that is advice for you if you're like on a sports team be like hey you want to start a company if you get if you like yeah if you work well on a sports team together then you'll i don't see why you wouldn't work well on a company together um yeah and so yeah we yeah and we just were hacking on projects all the time one okay here's one actually i don't even think this i i've ever said anything about this okay sweet jackson and i both this was pre melty we both really do not like partiful there was like a golden age of facebook Yeah. And what I love about the Facebook events is that it was like, it's, you do not control the UI. It's sort of like a blank canvas where what really mattered for a great Facebook event is the event description. And so my friends and I would put so much work into the event description, like it would way too much work. Um, and then Partiful has come along and they have this like aesthetic where it's like almost each part is unique, but it. feels to me like sort of like it's almost like a hallmark card or it's like it's like not quite unique but it like is pretending to be unique yeah i gotcha is it do you style them like is it like a vice sort of thing i i i mean your hate for it is stronger than my knowledge yeah okay i i don't i hate being a hater but i it's more that i i thought part of full has done a good job this has become popular but i think i think if you are a creative person you further okay so you two started we started um shindig.lol okay and it is great url yeah it is um you can think of it like uh a api first okay uh event hosting service i think we call it the tagline is party from the command line okay very nice and it's super difficult to use okay because it should be yeah like it should be yeah so for example like when you create a new party And of course, every time we host anything, we're using Shindig. Every time you host something, there's no logins on Shindig because we don't need logins. It's from the command line. So when you create a party, you get a token. And if you lose that token, you can't access your party anymore. So you get a host token. And then if you lose it, which we have lost before, you can't text your guests or see the guests anymore. And again, a token maximalist. Oh, yeah. That's very true. super hard to use but it is awesome and uh i it also actually uses that was our one of our first experience with ai coding because every website that you make uh is generated on a fly oh now by cloud sauna 3.5 so it is truly a unique website and then of course you can download the html and mess around with it love it love it yeah awesome i forget even how i got there no yeah that was one of the projects okay now it's back shindig is back yeah all right and we talked about this a little bit we talked about you did a clone voice of David Attenborough yeah and you like him a lot a huge fan huge fan and it turns out uh it went a little too viral and he's not a huge fan of you and you ended up a business insider dude congratulations on like a slam piece on thank you on that that was my first hit piece yeah yeah yeah first of many hopefully yeah um how how does that did that bring a lot of traffic to you do you use that I mean you it's pinned it's your pinned tweet yeah do you use that to be like hey why see oh that's actually i wanted to ask a question about that it said in that last tweet last minute application to yc yes how'd you do that so we applied uh it was a late deadline in um june i don't know let's say it's june 13th okay um we had to apply by midnight we started the application at 11 and they were like actually and this was the extended late deadline so like this is like way overdue we're like Uh, we're, it was almost midnight. We're like, this isn't going to be good enough. Let's just do it tomorrow as, as an exercise for ourselves. Like, can we like, can we succinctly explain an idea? Like maybe we should do a startup. This could be a fun way to feel that out. So then the next, we ended up playing the next day after the late deadline. And, um, then I went to Yosemite for the first time, uh, with my girlfriend and some friends. And then we came and I didn't have internet or anything really the whole weekend. Then I came back, I saw we had an interview. in two days. Um, and so, yeah, it all happened. I think, uh, we were, uh, Aaron Epstein's our partner. Okay. Uh, shout out to Aaron. He's, he, he's, he's the greatest. Um, but he, I think we were the last company that, uh, that he accepted. Okay. So like everything we, we basically accepted then quit our jobs on a Monday. And like that Thursday was the YC retreat. And so like it, it all happened really fast. How's that going? How's YC? Are you enjoying it? Uh, yeah. So what I, it, it. I actually wrapped up about a month ago. And yeah, it was an awesome experience. Like, I remember when I got in, people were like, oh, they're going to like force you to do like a B2B SaaS or they're going to just like pressure you to do something. And it is so, it's almost funny to me how opposite I was in. Like we would go to office hours with Aaron, like especially early on. And we had, we still don't know what we're doing, but like, especially then we didn't And we were like, should we do this? should we do that? Or like, whatever. And he'd just be like, what, what excites you guys? Like, what do you guys like doing? And those were the guiding questions that like helped us come up with ideas. And so it's just, it's, it's funny to me when people like shit on it for saying they'll like pigeonhole you or force you to do something. I don't know. Awesome. Awesome. Great, great experience with that. We have a hit piece from, from this. And in fact, I think I want to talk a little bit about, about Melty. Melty's got a little hockey stick thing. on there congratulations thank you uh 4.9 k stars let's that's today uh i do see that there's this as well uh lots of work to do oh yeah but 4.9 stars why don't we just get let's get some people let's get that to five you it deserves five melty deserves five let's get i'd agree i'd agree all right yeah awesome what sort of work is going on in the future a lot of experiments um i think like so melty v melty melty point one was a vs code extension right melty point 1.5 was a whole fork of vs code okay now melty point two okay is totally from scratch it's actually a native app okay um so it feels really snappy it's not electron it's not electron wow and we took all the things that we learned working on melty point one point one point five and are putting it in point two and nice like i think the most obvious thing we learned was that like going all in on git uh gives you some superpowers yeah um like in melty point two it's actually super weird and who knows if this will last but the database is git so every message is literally a git commit oh um you have like a history of what you did with the chat yeah oh you are a git max yeah and so like you can click on a message in your chat and go exactly to that point in time in both the file system and the chat and so and then if you make a change in the file system uh it melty will then commit that for you so it's always so that gives it that feeling of it always like watching over your shoulder yeah so you never have to explain to it what you're doing um but uh uh what was i saying oh yeah going all in on the like the native app and like taking what we've learned has been interesting because melty is now it's super extensible for for us yeah but then we just make it extensible for developers as well okay and so like for example like everything in melty you you call what we call programs so you'll be like the slash melty program is uh takes the chat context and then writes code changes based on it okay or the slash brief program just gives you a really short response to whatever question you have but then there's also like the slash web program which opens up a browser for you and then pipes in all the local host console logs back into the chat. And that's just like an extension that I wrote myself because I do a lot of web development. But I think one of the coolest parts about where Melty is going is making it extensible so any developer, if they're using particular tools in their workflows, can add it into Melty themselves. That's awesome. So we'll see how that turns out. That's something I'm excited about. So the future. The future is coming. We, the what I... wanted to do now we're gonna we're gonna move into our next game which is actually talking about the future so uh this one's gonna require uh you do you think about the future a lot um depends what you mean by a lot so like i feel like we're living in the future the future that i was like from movies right like way back in the day it's like wow this now this is real yeah you have a robot butler that you've i find myself all the time saying we live in the future yeah yeah yeah we're self-driving cars yeah yeah robot butler yeah yeah printing whatever so this is called coming soon okay we're gonna make a movie and the movie that we're gonna make is we're gonna take a look at code generation okay and all those movies that we love when they're writing it they're writing it 20 years in the future so we're gonna write it 20 years in the future have you thought about what 20 years in the future is it even possible to think about so that's 2044 yeah yeah i have thought about this a lot yeah but i don't i also try and stop myself from thinking too much about it okay because i just don't think You don't think you're going to be right? I don't think I'm going to be right. I don't think anyone's going to be right. And sometimes it stresses me out. It's just like too much change. I think the one thing that I think about is like, even if every piece of, every technology company like shut down today, and OpenAI stopped, Anthropic stopped, whatever, it would still be years before society realizes implications. of sonnet 3.5 for example so like they haven't gotten there yeah it's like it's like yeah i think things ripple faster than they used to but it's still hasn't reached still hasn't reached yeah and so like going even going two years like i don't know 20 years is crazy so i'm not going to hold you to it but like what what could possibly happen there in 20 i i think i think cogeneration wise like if i think and like people had to do this these size by these five sci-fi movie makers they did this and and i don't think it felt the same as it does now because i think time's moving faster so 20 years feels like a lot because all of a sudden i can do stuff in fact let me show you let me let's get started on what this thing looks like so we're gonna make a movie and it is here yeah have you seen that the multimodal playground here from from uh from cloudflare i think you dig this actually this is really neat so uh i'm gonna i need to get a picture of you here because we're gonna tag we're going to talk about this here because you're building this future whether you whether you think about it that way or not but like do you think about that way do you think about the fact that you're building the future uh yeah sometimes okay awesome so what we're gonna do um so so this this i have these little widgets over here i'm gonna make this a little bit bigger um so i'm gonna describe the person in this photo uh and we're just gonna return a brief description because we are going to create a movie synopsis based on a true story now these lines can So I'm going to take this photo and I'm going to push it into the vision instruct. I'm going to use that to describe you. So and the person in here is named Charlie and they are building the next big thing. Code generation. Interface. Companion. I like companion. OK, so all good movies have a but then. what stops what stops this code generation from happening like what what would stop in the next 20 years stop this you from going forward with this like what could possibly happen the most likely bad case for us is that we give up but then finally we're 20 years into the future then we're going to look back we're making a biopic film about this um finally well if we up then we yeah you gotta win finally we don't give up finally everyone in the world can can build anything they want build anything they want all right so uh the way this works is it goes in order it's it uses the y uh okay coordinates which i think you'll like this so it goes through here yeah so you you build this it goes and it pipes through and then we're going to come and we're going to start a little movie synopsis over here so we're going through uh the vision instruct we came over here uh the movie's called break breakthrough so congratulations nice and uh you're played by chris evans it's a good look for you i think the first it's called echo i don't know if you want to do it i like melty more okay probably should have talked about yeah there yeah i don't i actually think echo is a good name yeah amazon kind of had it but yeah that's true kind of dropped no never mind no haters on that one uh and then uh so then we have a voiceover so we're going to take this voiceover here because it's time for a voiceover and i cloned my voice doing that guy that does the in a world nice so here we go this is for you in a world on the brink of limitless possibility one man makes it a reality Charlie meet Charlie Taylor played by Chris Evans and Maya brought to life by the talented Zendaya oh so that's a great whose groundbreaking breakthrough is about to change everything witness the awe-inspiring creation that redefines human potential in the cinematic event of the year look at that cover that's wrong yeah that's using flexibly that's flux that we're coming through here and then of course you know i think that there's a lot of people who hear this stuff uh they'll base it just on the movie poster alone they base and and so there i wrote a fake review i love it i saw the movie breakthrough i don't think it lived up to the marketing hype it was all right three five stars they're two wholesome examples but uh yeah so so uh love it i would love to see this movie i'd love to what is happening with melty in 2044 how do people follow along with with you along your path to break i think uh twitter or x okay yeah i've been i've been quiet for a bit as for yeah we've been experimenting with some things but i'll have some updates to share soon okay awesome awesome thank you so much for being on the show and thank you for uh that new movie congratulations on the new movie thank you sorry about the overview that's okay yeah yeah i'm used to it you know a lot of haters yeah we can't wait to We are so excited to see what you're building as you're going through this. Thank you for being on the show. Thank you for being a friend. Thanks so much for having me. It's really fun. And thank you for this. Yeah, we'll take that with you.